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Mark_Guiniven

Portsea Golf Club, Victoria, Australia.
« on: August 02, 2005, 06:00:53 AM »
A friend of mine would like to know some more about Portsea Golf Club, Victoria, Australia. Would those familiar with the club care to share their thoughts on it? The architecture, turf & property, management structure of the club, membership numbers, joining fee/yearly subs, access from Melbourne etc.
Cheers,
Mark
« Last Edit: August 04, 2005, 09:09:42 AM by Mark Guiniven »

Matt_Sullivan

Re:Portsea Golf Club, Victoria, Australia.
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2005, 07:15:26 AM »
Well, I am no expert on the course but have had a pleasant day or two there. Here is what I know

Portsea is on the Mornington Peninsula, which is 90 mins or so by car from Melbourne, depending where in Melbourne you start from.

According to the yardage book, the first 10 holes were laid out in 1926. A few more holes were added over the years, up until 1955 when they had 14 holes. Sloan Morpeth then created the present 18 hole layout. Mike Clayton has been working on the course over the past 10 years so no doubt he can tell you more about it.

The course is a lot of fun to play -- wide open fairways, good greens, plenty of elevation changes, generally windy, very interesting collection of holes in a very nice part of the world. A good example of a classic Mornington "semi links" layout. Best holes in my view are the longish par 4 5th, the shortish par 5 6th, the par 3 12th, the great little par 4 13th (270 yards uphill) and the 17th.

Not sure about membership, but public access is good. My last game there was a 2 ball on a Sunday with my wife -- about A$30 each and no problem getting a tee time. Good clubhouse, which seems pretty new. Friendly staff.

No idea what membership would cost, but I would imagine given the competition down there in Mornington it would be both reasonable and available. Like most Aussie clubs I would guess it is a members club with yearly membership dues, not a transferrable membership (ie debenture).

You could have a look at www.portseagolf.com.au for more information
« Last Edit: August 02, 2005, 07:16:24 AM by Matt_Sullivan »

James Bennett

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Re:Portsea Golf Club, Victoria, Australia.
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2005, 12:53:29 AM »
I haven't played there, but my recollection is that the course was regarded as good enough (on a National and State scale) to host the interstate teams amateur series one year (in conjunction with nearby Sorrento), and that the course is better today than then.  Not sure if it was for the 'senior' (ie open to the best amateurs representing their state) or for the 'under 23' (for the next echelon of players, not quite good enough to make the frist team, but young eneough to warrant development).

Given the proximity to nearby Bass Straight, wind would be a common element of play.

I'll check a recent Oz Golf magazine - there may have been something in there about how their membership works.  Will update tomorrow if there is something there.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2005, 01:52:04 AM by James Bennett »
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Mark_Guiniven

Re:Portsea Golf Club, Victoria, Australia.
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2005, 01:27:42 AM »
Thanks James, Matt.

James,
I was going to ask which event that might have been. On his Barnbougle Dunes site Greg Ramsey put up an old Paul Daley interview with Tom Doak once http://www.barnbougledunes.com.au/downloads/doakeditedversion.pdf, an abridged version of which appeared in GOLF Australia, I think back in December '02. To one of Paul's questions Tom replied "Michael Clayton and I visited Portsea recently, where the club was hosting an amateur tournament. I really liked that course. In many respects the wonderfully undulating terrain reminded me of Crystal Downs." Maybe that was it. I'm sure Clayts goes over that time again and recounts a story about Tom's son somewhere in his book, but I can't find the page. Maybe it was in a Between The Ropes column instead.

Matt, great website. Thanks. Very well put together indeed. What lies around the course? Does it have sea views on any holes?






« Last Edit: August 04, 2005, 04:40:16 AM by Mark Guiniven »

David_Elvins

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Re:Portsea Golf Club, Victoria, Australia.
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2005, 02:29:12 AM »
Mark,

Portsea is a special place to play golf.  It sits on the end of the Mornington Peninsula abutting a National park.  From the high point on the course you get about a 270 degree view of the ocean that you can hear throughout your round.  Not only does it have a great ambience, but the course is great fun to play.  The fairways and greens are always firm with watering kept to a minimum, accentuating the big dunes that the course roll across. The course is relatively short, 6000m, but has some of the most fun shots in golf.  The recent work to the course has been excellent and more work is planned.

The members that I know really like the relaxed atmosphere of the club and the club appears to be more golf orientated than some others in the area.  Sorry, I don't know about membership fees or numbers.
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Mark_Guiniven

Re:Portsea Golf Club, Victoria, Australia.
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2005, 03:20:01 AM »
Thanks David. We were more interested in the kinds of things you mentioned (ambience, experience etc) than the cold numbers anyway. The yearly memberships appear to be AUD$550 (US$420). That's amazing. Dollar for dollar are the two ports—Portsea and Port Fairy—the best value club courses in Australia?



I like the substitute hole.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2005, 04:43:05 AM by Mark Guiniven »

James Bennett

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Re:Portsea Golf Club, Victoria, Australia.
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2005, 03:49:16 AM »
Substitute Hole?  I prefer 'Claytons Hole'.

Remember, the drink you have when your not having a drink (Claytons and Soda).  You probably had to be around in the 1980's to remember it.

So, Claytons Hole.  Its the hole you play when your not playing a hole! :)
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Andrew Summerell

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Re:Portsea Golf Club, Victoria, Australia.
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2005, 05:07:42 AM »
There is no substitute hole anymore as they have let it grow over.

Mike_Clayton

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Re:Portsea Golf Club, Victoria, Australia.
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2005, 05:16:23 AM »
Mark,

The substitute hole was the old 15th.It was replaced by a new short 16th where the green was built on what was the 17th tee.
17 was lengthened to create the one really long 4 on the back nine.

Ironically the best par 4 on the course is the hole played from the ladies tee on the 3rd to the 4th green.
There is a wonderful diagonal ridge right in the driving area but it loses its strategic influence from the current tee.
Our dilemma was how to find an extra 3 on the front nine to replace the 3rd - a decent hole but nothing more.
We could never find the answer but a month ago the club captain came up with the idea to build the extra hole from the back of the 9th green up toward the clubhouse.
It works perfectly and with a new back tee at the 7th (a tee that has opened up the best view from any tee on the Peninsula) the course will be significantly improved.

It is not one of the five best courses in Australia but it's in my top 5 to play for fun - easily.

Mark_Guiniven

Re:Portsea Golf Club, Victoria, Australia.
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2005, 05:31:42 AM »
Mike,
That's eerily Crystal Downs then isn't it if you're looking for an extra hole and its going to be a three up the hill to the clubhouse?

What does the club have on Alex Russell? If you're at home take out the SoAGCA journals issue 6, page 25, last passage above the Hector Morrison caricature. See what Neil or Paul Mogford has written there?

Mike_Clayton

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Re:Portsea Golf Club, Victoria, Australia.
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2005, 05:36:22 AM »
Mark

If we could do one half as good at the 9th at Crystal Downs  we would be very happy!

I don't have the magazine with me - but I don't know what they would have on Russell.The course was turned from 9 to 18 in the 60's by Sloan Morpeth.

Mark_Guiniven

Re:Portsea Golf Club, Victoria, Australia.
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2005, 06:07:14 AM »
Old Sloan? He was another one you guys pinched off us Mike. We could have done with a few Morpeth courses over here around that time.

I found out from Alex Russell's son Phillip that his father used to play golf with Sloan Morpeth all the time. Morpeth looked after Yarra Yarra during the War as well, I guess because it's so close to Commonwealth. It wouldn't surprise me if the two of them had discussed what needed to be done at places like Portsea.

When Douglas Whyte was after an architect for paraparaumu he asked for Morpeth's advice, being close friends, and that's how AR was invited here in 1949. I'm just going to assume Sloan was too busy to recommend himself!


Neil_Crafter

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Re:Portsea Golf Club, Victoria, Australia.
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2005, 07:02:27 AM »
Hi Mark and Mike
Alex Russell built some new holes and remodelled others for Portsea. I have an extract from their club history book "Within a Bull's Roar" (2001) which shows 6 of Russell's green plans from around 1930. Two of which were described as 'New Holes' and the others presumably were remodels. It is apparent he must have had a fair bit to do with the early course, but whether any of his greens remain intact I don't know. Hope this helps.
cheers
Neil :)

Paul_Daley

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Re:Portsea Golf Club, Victoria, Australia.
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2005, 07:16:55 AM »
Portsea has a lot going for it, being laid out upon 100% free-draining soil with its holes flanked by non-negotiable coastal vegetation, mainly tea-tree, interspersed with cypresses/pines on a few holes and even Moonah trees.

No bowling alley, the fairway-widths are sufficently wide and inviting to make hackers feel at home; narrow enough on 'tight' lines to challenge good players. Just about the only level stances and lies to be found are on the tees, and within the clubhouse.

Too many courses hang their hat on the scenic 'wow' factor over what's happening on the ground. Portsea's charm is that it has both elements in spades. Minus cliff-top and coastline eye-candy, Portsea's glorious vistas are as a result of elevated teeing grounds and the long, broad dunes.  

In no way is it a links, not even close, yet when the wind whips up and the fairways are bouncy, some could mistakenly try and sell the illusion.

One endearing feature is how several of the holes have adjoining fairways; that is, if you want them to be. Your
tee-shot may stray accidently and be fine, or you may play purposefully to the other fairway. At other holes, just the barest pulled drive will result in a lost ball.  

Portsea sports a terrific seaside look and feel, lots of inter-hole variety, untold dramatic rises and falls in elevation and  smallish greens that place a premium on shotmaking. You'll endure your share of 'table-top dancing' on these surfaces.
In keeping with the elevation changes, there is a good mix of second shot approaches to greens, seemingly, suspended from the clouds, yet others, towards low-lying greens in distant valleys. In part this explains why golfers never complain of being bored at Potsea.  

Perhaps one of Portsea's greatest under-appreciated virtues is that it doesn't have to be in top-notch condition to enthuse golfers. While it can really glisten at times, usually it presents in that throw-back unsophisticated look which is indicative of a club that has tight budgetry restrictions. Indeed, an argument could be mounted that if more courses had this restriction, we'd all be better off.

There are twenty-eight courses on the Mornington Peninsula; just as when you go to Scotland you must squeeze in Prestwick, North Berwick, The Old Course and Cruden Bay, when in Melbourne/Peninsula, you must play Portsea. Another thing: a round at Portsea is dirt cheap.

Mark_Guiniven

Re:Portsea Golf Club, Victoria, Australia.
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2005, 08:45:48 AM »
P.D. writing up a storm there mate. Thanks for that.

Neil,
Great find. Thanks for adding to the discussion. May I ask did you continue your Alex Russell work after writing that article for the journal? I know you wanted to hear from other clubs that had had a connection with him. Bit of a long shot after all these years I suppose but did any others come out of the woodwork? We were talking about Riversdale the last time Mike was out here at Paraparam and how much they've changed it. Mike commented on how little Russell actually left us with for someone who was apparently so good.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2005, 04:46:24 AM by Mark Guiniven »

Tyler Kearns

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Re:Portsea Golf Club, Victoria, Australia.
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2005, 09:39:29 AM »
Looks like I'll be adding Portsea to my itinerary this coming winter. The photos from the club website look very inviting to some fun golf.

TK

Neil_Crafter

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Re:Portsea Golf Club, Victoria, Australia.
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2005, 05:46:25 PM »
Mark
Yes, I have continued my interest in Alex Russell's work after co-authoring the article on Russell with Tony Hirst of Yarra Yarra that we published in GA6. Have not found out a hell of a lot, but can report one interesting thing. When Royal Melbourne sold off the land of the first 6 holes of their Sandringham course after reconfiguring the remaining holes with their new land to build the West Course, the sale didn't go through for a long time as this was right in the middle of the depression. John Green of Royal Melbourne has discovered that Russell added three holes on vacant land to the north-east of the old 6 holes and this was played as a public 9 holer for a period - how long I am not sure - before it was all ploughed under for housing. Who operated it I'm not sure either. These 3 holes can be seen in some 1930s aerial photos of Royal Melbourne, but they are fairly blurry and it is difficult to discern much about these holes. But I plan to keep trying and find out more about them and this little nine holer.

Given that Russell was never the most prolific architect, the discovery of three holes done by him is important. What Russell lacked in terms of quantity, he made up for in quality!

As for Riversdale, don't think there is too much intact Russell there either.

cheers Neil

Mike_Clayton

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Re:Portsea Golf Club, Victoria, Australia.
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2005, 07:15:31 PM »
Neil.

None of the original  Portsea greens are left.Morpeth essentially built a new course in the 60's.


Riversdale have a series of old black and white photos in the clubhouse of the course in the late 40's.The bunkering was brilliant - it looks the equal of the work he did at Yarra Yarra yet the ground was much more difficult.
Almost none of his bunkers are left (sadly) and - as unual - Russell would be horrified at the number of trees that have unduly influenced the play.

Chris Kane

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Re:Portsea Golf Club, Victoria, Australia.
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2005, 07:19:11 PM »
Mark, Portsea is terrific.  I imagine that it would fit the definition of "sporty" which some people use to describe shorter courses which are a good test of shotmaking.  

The turf is excellent, firm and fast every time I've been there.  The greens have that "bouncy" quality which makes controlling the ball upon landing a real test.

It may not be the "best" course on the Peninsula, but its easily the most fun (and I include St Andrews Beach in this).  

Mark_Guiniven

Re:Portsea Golf Club, Victoria, Australia.
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2005, 04:34:48 AM »
Thanks Neil, fascinating. I think Dr. Green has written something about Royal Melbourne in Paul Daley's upcoming Golf Arch. Vol 3, which I'm looking forward to reading in a few days.

Chris, yes, 'sporty' is good. Excellent point about the turf too. Cheers.

Mike,
That story I recalled was, of course, in your book. I was just looking in the Australian section instead of the US. All the things we've been discussing were next to one another.

CRYSTAL DOWNS
It's tumbling land, and the nine finishes with a huge, uphill 550-metre par-five eighth and a 190-metre par-three ninth along a narrow spine that leads back to a green almost under the proshop window. It is hard to imagine a hole on such a slender piece of land; in fact, to miss the green left is death. The story, perhaps apocyphal, is that Mackenzie's design partner, Perry Maxwell, returned from lunch to find Mackenzie proclaiming that he had solved the riddle of the routing. Maxwell apparently said, "It sounds terrific, except you only have eight holes." The only way to keep all eight was to fit a short hole onto a narrow strip of land back to the clubhouse. That routing might be the best routing over a difficult piece of ground in the world. Every hole is fun, the balance of short and long holes works, and there isn't even one hole close to being a dog. Interestingly, I was at Portsea one day with Tom Doak and his ten-year old son Michael. We were standing on the hill by the thirteenth green when Tom asked Michael what the course reminded him of. Michael looked around a little and said, 'It's just like Crystal Downs, dad' — which was exactly the course Tom had in mind.


Golf From The Inside, Mike Clayton, p132.

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