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Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« on: April 27, 2005, 11:28:45 PM »
In France close to the Channel.  Great terrain with some excellent greensites.  In places, it seems a bit like Formby to me. The only downer being the turfing of some of the bunkers to flat sand, no doubt for the auto raking machines.  Not what Tom Simpson had in mind, I'm sure.
Photo Credit: Frank Pont


1st

2nd

3rd

5th

6th





7th

7th bunker

8th

8th

9th

9th

10th



10th

11th

11th


14th

14th

15th

17th

17th

17th

18th

18th
« Last Edit: April 27, 2005, 11:34:05 PM by Paul_Turner »
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2005, 11:52:24 PM »
Thanks Paul.  Love the rolls of the land...doesn't look like too many flat lies.

Are the greens as small as they appear?

Is that an aiming marker on the 9th?
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

RT

Re:Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2005, 11:58:52 PM »
Frank & Paul,

Thanks for these great pics.

For those contemplating the trip to Hardelot, Ken Strachan who is GM of the place, is one to spend some time with, and perhaps grab a game with on Simpson's 'Les Pins' Course.

He is a prince of a man and a proud (in a very good and healthy way) Scotsman, with impeccible francais and good taste in fine wines.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2005, 12:01:03 AM by RT »

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2005, 03:16:37 AM »
Paul

This course looks a stunner.  You are right about some of those bunkers, not right are they?

People have been trying to get me over to Hardelot and Touquet for a spell now.  Perhaps I should make the trip.

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Philip Gawith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2005, 05:18:00 AM »
Thanks for the great pictures Paul. One or two of the holes reminded me a bit of Woburn, the ones with the taller pines.

Like Mr Arble, I think the trip over the channel draws closer!

(As a matter of interest, what do you mean by the "turfing of the bunkers to flat sand?")

T_MacWood

Re:Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2005, 06:18:49 AM »
Paul
Wow! Great pictures.

The course looks to be very well preserved...with the exception of the bunkers...which could be fixed easily (Simpson was known for his flashy irregular bunkers). This course is a good illustration of Simpson's economic use of bunkers...a few strategically placed bunkers in combination of strong use of undulations and contours was his preferred method. I love the rough country and hillocks blocking the corners of a number of the doglegs...visually striking and I'm sure exciting shoot over in person. His green work looks very interesting as well.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2005, 06:22:01 AM by Tom MacWood »

TEPaul

Re:Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2005, 06:52:20 AM »
The natural and architectural "lines" on that course look really neat---pretty old fashioned and of a style and maybe even quirky. I can see that they hide certain things that would not be good to see but Jeeesus, talk about a restricting and encroaching tree problem on that course. It would be fun and interesting to see how best to remove trees to expose those interesting natural and architectural "lines" while hiding the things that are not attractive to look at.

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2005, 06:55:21 AM »
How tight is it?

T_MacWood

Re:Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2005, 06:56:57 AM »
TE
The course was built in the late 20's/early 30's. Old-fashioned in what way?

TEPaul

Re:Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2005, 06:57:58 AM »
"only downer being the turfing of some of the bunkers to flat sand,"

Paul:

I've never been real sure what that kind of sentiment is all about. Do you feel that ALL sand bunkers should be sand flashed up as far as possible or to some point where very little grass-line surround can be seen?

How about you Tom MacWood? Do you feel that ALL sand bunkers should be sand flashed up as far as possible? And if so, why?

TEPaul

Re:Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2005, 07:01:19 AM »
"TE
The course was built in the late 20's/early 30's. Old-fashioned in what way?"

Tom:

Have you seen any Fazio, Rees Jones or Hurzdan and Fry or Pete Dye architecture lately? How do you think the style and look of them compares and contrasts to the architecture in those photos above?

ForkaB

Re:Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2005, 07:14:35 AM »
Good stuff, Paul.   Thanks.

I'll be passing nearby this summer on my way down to and back from the Vendee.  Is it vaut le detour (considering that I will be en famille and will need to spend precious brownie points if I wish to play)?

T_MacWood

Re:Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2005, 07:51:40 AM »
TE
I was wondering, when hear old-fashioned I think turn of the century old-fashioned. This course looks to be pretty sophisticated.

The bunkers don't reflect Simpson's typical flashy irregular, broken edge look...I reckon it wouldn't be too difficult to re-establish.

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2005, 09:20:56 AM »
"only downer being the turfing of some of the bunkers to flat sand,"

Paul:

I've never been real sure what that kind of sentiment is all about. Do you feel that ALL sand bunkers should be sand flashed up as far as possible or to some point where very little grass-line surround can be seen?

How about you Tom MacWood? Do you feel that ALL sand bunkers should be sand flashed up as far as possible? And if so, why?

Tom

No I don't think that all bunkers have to be that way.  But looking at the photo of say the 7th, it's obvious to me that the bunkers have been altered to accomodate the modern raking machines.

As Tom mentions, Simpson built exposed sand bunkers.  And on this sandy, rolling site with some dunes, that style fits.  The bunker on the 15th is much closer to the original design (I have seen old pics).

Agree it's a bit overgrown.
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2005, 09:28:22 AM »
Rich

I haven't played it, Frank sent me the pics.  Was thinking of trying to squeeze it in with NAF on the upcoming trip.  But I think Zoute will have the edge.

I reckon that a day at Hardleot/Touquet would be a pretty good days golf.  
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Jonathan McCord

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2005, 03:49:52 PM »
    WOW, truly amazing pictures.  The tee shot on the eighth reminds me of a hole on Strantz's Tobacco Road.  GREAT STUFF!!!
"Read it, Roll it, Hole it."

Marc Haring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2005, 03:56:14 PM »
Great pictures Paul. Terrific looking course with so much of the Surrey heathland about it. I agree entirely with your assertion about the bunkers. Clearly a case of ease of maintenance combined with the misguided use of that awful tool, ‘the edging iron’, an archaic implement much abused in the 70’s and 80’s to create the clean edge Augusta look. That bunker on #8 is a classic case of a bunker that has had all the character edged out of it.

As for the trees, how do they get turf to grow, or at least the right turf to grow? Typical of Golf in France, good but perhaps they have not quite come to appreciate the original spirit of the game. I played a course last year in Normandy, Champs Le Battaille or something like that. Same sort of thing but newer and not as good, same stifling tree lines as well.

Here’s the 17th.



Andy Levett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2005, 04:37:06 PM »
In the Landes region (quite a way south of Hardelot, south of the Vendee in fact) they used to have terrible problems with severe storms breaking through the dunes and flooding the flat fertile settlements beyond.
Somebody there (whose name I’ve forgotten) came up with the idea in the mid C.19 of planting softwood saplings to stabilise the dunes and thereby toughen up the storm defences and is heralded as a great man locally.

I’ve wandered through the woods you must penetrate before reaching the beaches in the Landes and speculated upon what a fabulous golf course could be carved through those wooded dunes. C19 France was the most centralised  nation in the world at the time so it’s not beyond the bounds of possibility that the success of the scheme in the  Landes could have been encouraged elsewhere, like, say,  the dunes south of Boulogne.

Anyway, this is a long-winded way of saying that looks like a great course - just like the fantasy course I was constructing walking though those big, wooded, dunes in Les Landes.

I agree, Simpson would have been initially shocked by the current look. For him, everything had to be natural, no matter how artificial the means used to achieve that look. In the Lonsdale ‘Golf’ he even captions a picture criticising a greenkeeper for cutting the rough in an even line – not for cutting it in a straight line, just a smooth one. And anyone who has seen his drawings would realise what’s been lost in the bunkering as well.
But personally, I’d prefer to celebrate what’s left. Great pics Frank!
 

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2005, 06:16:30 PM »
Paul,

I think what these pictures (wonderful to see) tell me is that Simpson's architecture shows through the superficial detail of bunkering and trees.  When you've made your own up-coming foray over the channel, I hope you'll agree that what you encounter in France, Belgium or Holland (Simpson, Colt and others) has not been altered out of all recognition and that if anyone wanted to do a restoration job (not yet in vogue in Europe) it would not be a massive undertaking.  All this, despite a World War or two which (in the case of Kennemer, for instance) reduced everything to zero.  

T_MacWood

Re:Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2005, 10:27:12 PM »
How close to the sea is Hardelot?

NAF

Re:Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2005, 10:57:11 AM »
Perhaps a Simpson original??


T_MacWood

Re:Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2005, 04:40:56 PM »
NAF
That is the old Hardelot, which was designed by JD Dunn...I believe it was only 9 holes. Simpson came in around 1930 and built new 18-hole course.

Andy Levett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2005, 06:50:14 AM »
There's some more old pics of Hardelot and a routing map on this fascinating site: http://www.golfika.com/cpa62h_e.html

Cornish and Whitten also give Mackenzie Ross an architectural credit, perhaps for  putting the course back into commission after the ravages of World War 2?

Sébastien Dhaussy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hardelot-Simpson Gem
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2005, 07:41:48 AM »

Somebody there (whose name I’ve forgotten) came up with the idea in the mid C.19 of planting softwood saplings to stabilise the dunes and thereby toughen up the storm defences and is heralded as a great man locally.


Andy,

It was Nicolas BREMONTIER (1738-1809).
He was helped by works of engineer Charlevoix de Villiers and the abbot Desbiey to fight against the invasion of the Landes by sand by means of the plantation of the pines.
A Decree of 1801 ordered the fixing of the Dunes under its Direction. He published one Report on the Dunes in 1797.
"It's for everyone to choose his own path to glory - or perdition" Ben CRENSHAW

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