[Jason Topp]

To me they seem to have the same effect on play.  Is there any difference other than tradition?

[Tom_Doak]

Conifers aren't necessarily bad.  They add some color contrast in climates where the grass goes dormant.

But if the conifers are too close to play, no one has fun punching out from under them.  And unlike gorse, they tend to grow up so tall as to block views in any direction other than the hole is playing.

Among the courses with cool conifers:  San Francisco Golf Club, Pine Valley, Cypress Point, Royal Melbourne and Kingston Heath.

[Mike Nuzzo]

They also block a lot of sun.

I'd like to hear about some bad use of gorse.

[Jeff_Mingay]

A gorse bush is much more attractive than a conifer.  

I just returned from St. Andrews, where the gorse was in full bloom, and the courses looked remarkably beautiful as a result. I don't think I could ever say the same about a golf course featuring an abundance of conifers.  

[Jonathan McCord]

    I agree with the two previous posts.  Conifers do add a splash of color in the winter, spring, and fall months, but can also be a playability issue.

    At Spencer Golf and Country Club we have a three pine trees on hole three about 270 to 280 from the tee.  The trees are not more then 10 feet off the fairway, so to say the least, Jon has punched out of those more then enough.

   I think they offer some contrast but need to be limited especially when placed close to the line of play.  However, conifers can also be trimmed 2-4 feet above the ground so a recovery is possible.

[Brian_Sleeman]

On our Heritage course they are simply overused, to the point of dividing many of the fairways (hence the "dopey conifer" mindlessness point by Mr. Klein).  In our case they basically replaced heather as a penalty for errant tee shots.

[JSlonis]

Because:

To borrow a line from an old SNL skit...

"If it's not SCOTTISH...it's Crap!

[PThomas]

having grown up playing parkland golf, I guess I'm used to trees and don't have the dislike/hatred!!? that some of you do

I would rather play a links course than a parkland, however

[TEPaul]

I hate conifer trees anyway but particularly on golf courses that never had any indigenous conifer trees pre-golf course. If the site had indigenous conifer trees pre-course then I guess they're OK.

But if some club just went out there and planted them as they did on so many of the old sites that were open farms once and are now supposed to basically be the "parkland" look I don't like them thar scum-sucking, shade producing, scratchy, ticklish-creating conifer trees that get sap all over you and your clothes if you come anywhere near the damn things.

Hate em, hate em, hate em on golf courses where they aren't indigenous. Matter of fact, if I can get my chain-saw going I just might go out on my farm here and murder a few of them on general principles!

[PThomas]

Tom -- I get the impression you didn't go out and hug a tree this recent Earth Day...

[Tyler Kearns]

While conifers do not provide the beautiful yellow & orange colours in the fall that their deciduous cousins do, they are advantageous in that they do not shed their foliage. I love playing golf in the fall, but the constant searching for balls through piles of leaves is more than a little frustrating.

TK

[T_MacWood]

Brad Klein (and some others) is an outspoken critic of conifers...I personally like them. Sandy ground and conifers are a natural combo.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I will go on record that Gorse is not good if you go near it. It usually means stroke and distance and few thorns in the arms trying to avoid the penalty. I am obviously not a rabbit. It is not so pretty in the summer as well. I hear it is hard to get rid of, much like the dreaded Wisteria of the deep south and any other place that made the mistake of planting it.

[PThomas]

this line of thought reminded me of what T Doak said in the Confidential in his Oakmont writeup:  "I've never understood why water to the right of a green is acceptable, but rough and a tilted green that make it impossible to get up and down from the right are "unfair"".

wise words indeed

[Dunlop_White]

Conifers typically don't lose their dense leaf material. Therefore, they tend to block essential morning sunlight, air circulation, beautiful vistas, and fair opportunities for recovery. They can cause winterkill damage,  yet they work well when they are out-of-play, to the west sides of critical turf areas, or on the perimeter of the premises to screen unsightly structures and distracting noise.

[Kevin_Reilly]

I think there has been more said about conifers in this thread than in the discussion forum on the American Conifer Society web site!

American Conifer Society Discussion Forums

[James Bennett]

Well summarised Dunlop White.

You could add that the pines/conifers are generally surface rooted, so adding to the drought stress faced by abutting fairways.  Also, pines/conifers tend to be man-made plantings, so they are often a lot closer together than nature intended.  Golf Clubs tend to forget how big mature conifers will grow.

However, similar arguments can also be mounted for gorse and other heathland plants.  I have seen situations where native grasses have been overplanted, resulting in a 'bermuda triangle for lost balls'.

[A_Clay_Man]

Don't they(conifers) produce some form of poison, so other plant life, (grass) can't invade their space?

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Gorse is penal.  It can look attractive in bloom and can smell beautiful but it is the very devil just off a fairway where, almost invariably, it means a lost ball.  It needs careful and regular maintenance if it is not to overcrowd itself and die off in clumps.  It harbours rabbits, often the scourge of links course maintenance.  Very rarely (except in the very margins of the bush) does it offer any kind of recovery stroke (as it grows so low to the ground) and a ball that is visible yet is more than two clubs' lengths from a playable lie mau have to be dropped hundreds of yards away simply to keep a line between the gorse bush and the pin.  It causes huge hold ups for visiting societies and I cannot think how many promising medal cards have been torn up and championships lost at Conwy over the last three holes, which are very tight through gorse - far more constricting than trees.  Gorse does offer cover for many small birds in an otherwise barren landscape.

[John Kirk]

Here in Oregon, gorse is a bad thing.  Gorse was planted in Bandon as an ornamental in the 19th century, and it now dominates open fields for miles in each direction.  It is extremely invasive, and crowds out the native vegetation.  It has thorns, causes a rash when you touch it, and is an extreme fire hazard.  Once it starts burning, you can't put it out.

Perhaps it makes the Bandon courses look more authentic as links courses, but it's awful.

In 500 years, the only two plants left will be gorse and Roundup-resistant bent grass.

[T_MacWood]

Those pictures of Hardelot illustrate why I believe conifers are much more attractive than deciduous trees...especially on sandy soil.

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