[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Gary,
Great lay out but built on too mich of a shoestring budget and you can tell!!!
Great lay out is no exageration either, but the property is so good it would have been hard not to come up with a good course.
I believe the place lost around 300 k last year, so I ahve been told it is available to anybody who can come up with a figure close to what they want.
The problem is that it is built on trust land that cannot be developed at all..so not much chance of money coming in.

[THuckaby2]

Dan:

Heck I'm all for the 12 hole course idea in general, or even better 3 loops of six... but specific to Lincoln Park, well...it's pretty damn cool as it is... If there is money earmarked for the course, I'd be much more in favor of spending it on maintenance of what's there now rather than starting over.  We're talking one of the world's real jewels of quirk, just as it is....

Now if they want to spend money on re-doing a course, how about Sharp Park?  There's all sorts of material on how that could be (re)made to be great....

TH

[Gary_Mahanay]

Michael,

Is Hank looking for somebody to take this off his hands?  Do you know the ownership structure of Hank Haney's Texarkana Golf Ranch?  Is it not mostly Hank Haney's money?  I think they have like a 100 year lease for a $1 a year on the land don't they?  This course is better than anything in the area except for Texarkana C.C. isn't it?  Where do you play most of your golf?

Gary

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Gary,
From what I have been told, Hank would welcome a buyer..and I heard that whilst playing an event in California.
I think the ownership structure is fairly simple..the bank...
Without a doubt the best course outside of Texarkana cc within 75 miles, but the golf business around here is just struggling.
I play all of my non tournament golf at TexarkanaCC, a great old tradional course, originally designed by Langford and Moreau, and still maintaining mush of their original work..all be it with some modern stuff thrown in..but that could be taken care of!!!!

[Doug Siebert]

I played Lincoln Park once about ten years ago with a friend who had moved to SF, and while it is short, cramped and poorly maintained it was a fun course to play.  Definitely quirky.  Not necessarily all "good" quirk, but there is some to be found there.  The views are amazing, and with a bit of work with a chainsaw, could be even better (the view of Golden Gate was almost completely blocked for instance, what a crime!)

My idea at the time was that they should spend a million bucks or so making it a bit prettier, enhancing the views and getting the word out about it.  That could be easily paid for and more by charging non SF residents twice to play it instead of whatever paltry sum is currently charged, and leave the locals rate alone.  Plenty of tourists would spring for that since they could combine golfing and touring the city in a single afternoon.

[THuckaby2]

Doug:

I can't remember the view of the GG ever being completely blocked, not from 17 anyway... but you'll be happy to note that due to a combination of man and nature, it is most definitely viewable today from 17.  In fact it's one of the cooler views in golf, really.

In any case, I share your views re what they ought to do to the course, even if it means I'd have to pay twice as much.

It's a strange course as is, with some really odd holes, like you say, some good, some bad.  But it is what it is and it would be a shame to take that "is" away too much.  In fact, making conditions TOO GOOD would take some of that away also... but that would be acceptable, I guess.

I think of Lincoln like Fenway Park or Wrigley Field... put too many luxury boxes in there, pretty it up too much, and it's more comfortable for a lot of people... it just loses it's essential "Fenwayness" or "Wrigleyness", you know?

Thus my fears about making a world class 12 hole course where Lincoln sits.  Yes, it COULD be wonderful.  But what's there is pretty damn special as it is.

TH

[tonyt]

A lot of love has been expressed on these boards in the past for a greater percentage of shorter courses. Be they a 5400-5700 yard regular style course or something more like a par 3 course. In many ways, these could serve the purpose of the 12 hole course, but still give the player 18 times to hole out.

In Sydney and in a coastal town in my home state of Victoria, there are 9 hole par 3 courses that are pristinely maintained to standards not far removed from Melbourne's famed sand belt. And with greens that unlike many short courses, aren't so stupidly tiny as to fail to hold a wedge that lands a third of the depth into the green. These two courses attract very large numbers of players, and both proprietors are delighted with their level of business, which in both cases is well up on forecasts.

Seriously designed par 3 courses (unlike the scale compromises we usually see) and short "full length" courses of par 64-70 have a lot in theory going for them. Admittedly, it is all a matter of a course needing a client to have one built.

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