News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Brian_Gracely

14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« on: November 25, 2004, 11:55:38 AM »
While the GCA-club was interesting, I've decided to form The One Club.  It will play as the literal name says....only one club matches are allowed.  

We played our annual Thanksgiving Day match and decided that today's format should be one-club.  Throw in that we couldn't look at the yardage markers; could only take two balls (run out and you've got to find one in the woods or water); could only use one tee; never took the flag out of the hole; stymie in effect; and play your ball as soon as you got to it (no waiting, even if both of us were putting).  

Played in two hours; probably played 8-10 different types of shots (including some great 5i greenside-bunker shots); back & legs felt great after the round; saw the course from new angles.  One of the most fun rounds I played all year....right up there with CPC and the Cuscowilla Hickory Match.

« Last Edit: November 25, 2004, 01:16:26 PM by Brian_Gracely »

JohnV

Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2004, 12:10:42 PM »
Lowering the number of clubs has been mentioned, but somehow I can't see it happening.  If you really want to see the golf industry scream, try that one with them.

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2004, 01:12:48 PM »
It's possible that the manufacturers wouldn't mind at all, as they sought to convince golfers that their new 10 club (or whatever) set was the best possible version of lofts, lengths.  Possible marketing opportunity...
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2004, 03:51:42 PM »
Brian,
I couldn't agree more. Right now I have 13 in the bag. That ends today--the three iron is coming out and I'll make it 12 there.  I'll also figure out three or four more clubs to get rid of while I'm at it.

I did this about two or three years ago and then once Rustic Had me thinking of playing more and different clubs, I went back to the full 14. By accident, I recently left my Hickory Stick Hi Lob out and I haven't had one reason to put it back in.

I want to get into walking shape here soon, and the less clubs the better! :)

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2004, 03:55:20 PM »
Wasn't there a one-club competition amongst pros held at the Old Course years ago? If I recall correctly, Seve won at least once (surprise, surprise!).

Boy, I'd love to see such an event come back. Particularly at St. Andrews.
jeffmingay.com

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2004, 03:55:37 PM »
The best one-club player the world has ever seen....roll of drums, no, not Sevy but Christy O'Connor Snr.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2004, 06:30:30 PM »
Bob, what club did Christy use?

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2004, 07:14:06 PM »
Bill, I'm not sure, I'll ask a mutual friend.

I do know that on a 148 yard par three he hit the green with every club in the bag, including the putter.

Neal_Meagher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2004, 07:35:08 PM »
This does bring up an interesting thought; it sure would be fun to see some of the best players in the world enliven the current glut of silly season events with a one (or maybe two by including the putter - lest we scuff the velvetine putting surfaces) club event.

It would showcase whomever possesses the most imagination in playing shots from all over.  And who has had more success doing just that than............................Mr. Woods.

Now, put him in one of those night-time made-for-TV tourneys against Phil and you would really have something.
The purpose of art is to delight us; certain men and women (no smarter than you or I) whose art can delight us have been given dispensation from going out and fetching water and carrying wood. It's no more elaborate than that. - David Mamet

www.nealmeaghergolf.com

Brian_Gracely

Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2004, 08:03:08 PM »
Brian,
I couldn't agree more. Right now I have 13 in the bag. That ends today--the three iron is coming out and I'll make it 12 there.  I'll also figure out three or four more clubs to get rid of while I'm at it.


Tommy,

You'd be surprised at how easy it is to remove the odd or even numbered clubs from your bag and not lose anything but bag weight.  Choke down and hit a full-shot or hit a soft cut and you'll fill in all the gaps.  

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2004, 09:12:07 PM »
And I thought that this was going to be a serious post.

Perhaps if I had young Brian's skills I could do with a half set, but never with one club.  I have trouble enough playing golf using all 14 clubs, and couldn't do it all without abundant yardage markers.  I do admire you guys who like to make an already hard game even more difficult.

Joe Kish was a wonderful golfer at OSU-Scarlet and, even in competition, he generally carried just two woods, four irons, a SW and his trusty Tommy Armour putter.  He played great well into his 70s, and he might still be around in his 80s shooting his age on a regular basis.  Joe hit a low hook and could maneuver the ball around.  I suspect that in today's greener, softer conditions, he would have much more trouble.

Brian, at next event that we both attend, I'll play a modest Nassau with you.  You play with one club, and I'll carry a half-set.  You pick the tees on odd holes, and you don't have to give me any strokes.  Oh, you can't look at the yardage markers either, but I can take a player's guide.  Fair enough?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2004, 09:18:05 PM by Lou_Duran »

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2004, 09:54:49 PM »
Neal, my friend, you're right...

I haven't tuned into one of those "prime time" golf events from California, but you know I'd tune into a one-club challenge on a Tuesday night at 9 p.m. from St. Andrews!

And, I agree, Woods would probably prevail.

Problem is, there's no real estate developments to sell at St. Andrews, Scotland, so we're stuck with the Skins Game from Triolgy GC on TV this weekend.
jeffmingay.com

Brian_Gracely

Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2004, 10:44:50 PM »
And I thought that this was going to be a serious post.

Brian, at next event that we both attend, I'll play a modest Nassau with you.  You play with one club, and I'll carry a half-set.  You pick the tees on odd holes, and you don't have to give me any strokes.  Oh, you can't look at the yardage markers either, but I can take a player's guide.  Fair enough?

Lou,

The funny thing is I actually thought about you during the round.  On the first hole we decided not to look at the yardage markers and I wondered if that would cause you to go back to the clubhouse right then and there. ;)

Do I honestly believe the game should be reduced to one club....no.  But playing today took me back to when I was just beginning and had a 3w, 3i, 5i, 7i, 9i, putter and all the courses had were 150yd bushes.  You'd be amazed how quickly your brain will adjust to depth perception and start figuring out distance, but more importantly, you start seeing shots again in terms of shaping them rather than hitting the ball to a specific distance.  It's a truly liberating experience.

As far as that Nassau goes, you got it.  I might bring along a putter so I don't scuff somebody else's greens, but I believe I'd do well in that match-up.  Freeing the mind is a wondering thing, and I weep for those that are bound to the card, pencil and yardage book. ;D

Dan King

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2004, 12:58:25 AM »
Bob Huntley talking about Christy O'Connor writes:
I do know that on a 148 yard par three he hit the green with every club in the bag, including the putter.

The Christy O'Conner story is told in a book I have around here called Himself. If my books were better organized I'd be able to find it, but I'll have to rely on my memory.

The story is The Great Man was playing in a tournament with an amateur. The amateur hit the green and so did Christy. The amateur asked what club Himself used and he said he used a 7-iron. The amateur made a big deal about having hit the green with a 9-iron while it took a 7-iron for the great Irish champion. Christy then went and hit the green -- many inside the amateur's ball -- with every club in his bag, driver through putter.

I think everyone should try playing with 7 or 8 clubs for a while. It will teach you a lot about your own game.

Dan King
Quote
The World Cup was founded to generate international goodwill through golf. Friendship and conviviality are therefore supposed to be essential ingredients of the tournament and Christy O'Conner had a powerful talent for friendship and conviviality. Indeed many good judges are convinced that O'Conner's genius for hitting a golf ball would have won him several Open Championships if only nature had endowed him less liberally with the conviviality.
 --Peter Dobereiner

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2004, 01:19:48 AM »
Brian, There was indeed a one-club open held the day after the Open Championship at the Old Course and it was indeed Seve, I think it was about 1984, the day after Tom Watson missed what would be his record breaking 5th, and met his demise on the Road Hole.

Ray Floyd was the challenger with Seve using a three iron the entire trip and I think Floyd used a 5 iron or something like that.

What made it even more interesting was Seve playing out of bunkers with the 3 iron. From what I remember this is the type of club he grew up with in Spain. He was quite proficient getting out of some of those bunkers with it!

TEPaul

Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2004, 04:15:36 AM »
"Manufacturers would have little choice......I am not saying manufacturers would like it, but surely they don't have the clout with the USGA that a lobbyist would with a Congressman."

Sean Arble:

Oh really? Maybe you haven't noticed what's effectively been going on between the golf equipment manufacturers and the two regulatory bodies in the last 10-20 years. Effectively, the manufacturers have scared the shit out of those two bodies (or at least scared the nerve out of their lawyers who've scared the shit out of those bodies boards of directors!).

For about that time span the manufacturers have basically held a Damocles sword over the equipment regulators (USGA & R&A) called "restraint of trade" lawsuits.

Perhaps, if the boards of the regulatory bodies were democratically elected by the golfing public the atmosphere would be like lobbyists and Congressmen but if one really thought about that it would probably make matters even worse!   ;)

In my opinion, the best way for the regulatory bodies to go about ball and equipment rules and regulations and the manufacturers and their ratcheted up adverserialness in the last 10-20 years and obviously in the future is to just basically say; "Dese are de rules and regs, period" and tell the manufacturers if they want to come after them to come on and give it their best shot because basically they'll never win!

The reason I say that is the regulatory bodies (two "not for profit" organizations) have the best defense in the world against "restraint of trade" lawsuits from manufacturers. (the regulatory bodies will always pretty much be on the defendant side and never on the plaintiff side on I&B lawsuits).

They can simply say in their defense they're completely based on VOLUNTARY COMPLIANCE by the manufacturers and by golfers and there's not one damn thing they (USGA & R&A) can do about it if the manufacturers and golfers want to violate their equipment and ball rules and regulations. The USGA and R&A are not the "Law" on I&B rules and regs as so many seem to think they are. Golfers and manufacturers have always followed their I&B rules and regs only because they've chosen to not because they actually have to (except in the USGA's own 13 tournaments (R&A's own too)!

Of course it might be a real possiblity if the regulatory bodies used that ideal defense (basically which should never lose against manufacturers' "restraint of trade" lawsuits, in my opinion) and continued to win with it that the manufacturers would say, "OK, then if it's voluntary compliance we then choose not to comply with your I&B rules and regs and if we sell non-conforming balls and equipment to the golfing public and they buy it en masse, guess what, you guys (the regulatory bodies) will effectively be irrelevant in I&B rules and regs."

It seems the regulatory bodies may be very aware of that possibiliy!
« Last Edit: November 26, 2004, 04:42:24 AM by TEPaul »

ForkaB

Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2004, 05:40:13 AM »
THE King (Dan) and I had a pretty good duet on here about 3-4 years ago regarding limiting the # of lcubs in the bag.  Unfortunately, I fell off the wagon and went back to my full set soon after for god knows what reason....... :'(

However, this summer my 7-iron went on the fritz, and I spent 2-3 months waiting for a new 1980's shaft to be found before getting it repaired.  The result was that I fell in love with my 6-iron, and found that it could do everthing the 7-iron could do, and more (except do the full-blooded 170 yard melted shot covering the flag that I was able to accomplish about once every 2-3 years....).

This revelation, along with several suggestions (mostly from sceptics on this site) that I exchange my usually trustworthy 20-year old 1-iron with a "rescue club", coupled (tripled?) with the fact that one of my sisters in law is marrying a likely to be generous while he still in the honeymoon period golf pro next month, quadrupled with the fact that the blades I play with are 20 years old, and quintupled by my age which unfortunately continues to increase, has lead me to think about a new set, and here is my current brainstorm:

1.  Driver (big melon-headed titianium thing that I can still carry 270 when all the body part are moving together, and hit off the deck when a low screamer into the wind is required)
2.  Rescue club (if it's good enough for Gib and JakaB, it's good enough for me)
3.  4 iron (this and all other irons will use 2004 technology rather than the 1984 I now play)
4.  6 iron
5.  8 iron
6.  Pitching Wedge
7.  Sand Wedge
8.  Flop Wedge

I may or may not carry a putter, depending on how successful I am in emulating Moe Norman with this new set....

Any suggestions?

Darren_Kilfara

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2004, 08:37:15 AM »
Rich - lose the flop wedge (which is for sissies anyway) and add your putter (which is actually part of the game). Seriously, I've never "learned" how to hit a lob wedge - you don't need one to play good golf, no matter what anyone tells you...

Cheers,
Darren

Michael Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2004, 12:11:29 PM »
Fourteen clubs are killing the game . . .

Wow, the game must have really sucked before the fourteen club rule was instituted in 1938.

I love hitting the ball close and having the correct yardage to help me do so.

I hate flush-crushing the wrong club over the green.

Put me in camp of "golf is alive and well". Every year I get better, and have more fun as a consequence.
Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

Patrick_Mucci

Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2004, 05:17:37 PM »
Tommy, Rich, et. al.,

Shortly after my hip and back went out, I started trying to walk a few holes just to loosen up.

It was an amazing experience.

With no clubs I was able to shoot ten (10) under par consistently, after just a few rounds.

And, the real beauty is, I didn't need balls, tees, markers or ball repair devices either.

Even though I know my club extra-ordinarily well, including the distance from any point on the golf course to the hole I'm playing, I did happen to inadvertantly glance at an occassional yardage marker as I was picking up some grass to see which way the wind was blowing. ;D
« Last Edit: November 26, 2004, 05:18:12 PM by Patrick_Mucci »

Dale_McCallon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2004, 09:52:33 PM »
The thought of some of these sill season events going to one or two club tourneys is interesting.  But what would dropping a pro's number of clubs during regular play change?  In a normal professional round, how many times does the player ever use all 14 clubs.  All par 4's are basically driver/short iron.  Is there a course on tour that really requires all 14 clubs?

ForkaB

Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2004, 03:52:56 AM »
Darren

You'll have to tear my 1985 Tom Watson Ram 60 degree lob wedge out of my dying hands!  I can't see how one could play Dornoch properly without such an implement.

Pat

Only 10 under?  You must be a very modest man. ::)

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2004, 10:05:15 AM »
Another proponent of getting out there and just playing tee to green with a 4 iron is Lee Trevino.  

I often play with 8 or 9 clubs and have no significant drop-offs from my ussual 88-93 stroke round. ::)

A fellow men's club member is a 63 year old retired teacher who always plays with just 5 clubs and always shoots about 82-88.

For a hack like me, I have come to think that so many clubs gives you too much to think about rather than a singular goal to just hit it. 8)  
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

A_Clay_Man

Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2004, 10:22:49 AM »
If the club manufactuers could get the same price, for less clubs, they'd go for it in a heart beat.

I find that when I have the wrong club in my hand, I can still execute the shot. I just have to be much more into the shot, mentally. Id'nt that a good thing?

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:14 clubs and yardage markers are killing the game...
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2004, 10:23:09 AM »
 8)

Rich G,

That "proposed" set sounds like my summer set here in Houston.. definitely loose the 60° lob, pure fluff.. are you telling us you didn't grow up opening your 9-iron for sand and flop shots in your first 3-5-7-9 iron set?

One club golf is less of an overall mental challenge than one might think.. how about just one handfull.. whatever you really want to carry and manage..

In 1960's par 3 daze.. my Bud & I used to carry putter, 7/3- or 9/5-iron combo, and we got around quite well..
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back