[Brent Hutto]

The web site for Pine Needles doesn't say anything about the progress of their renovation that's been going on all summer. It was supposed to reopen some time in October so they ought to be just about done, assuming everything ran on schedule. Anyone been there to check out the results?

I played there for the first time in February, 2004 not long before they closed to do the work. I can't wait to play the spruced-up version of my new favorite course.

[jim_lewis]

Brent:

Pine Needles is scheduled to reopen on October 18.

For starters, the owners object to your use of the term "renovation". They insist that what they asked John Fought for and what they got was a "restoration".  I don't know how to post a link, but if you long onto thepilot.com (our local paper) and go to the golf section, you will find a current story regarding the work at Pine Needles.

I walked the course on a Sunday morning about a month ago. Here are my impressions:

Many new tees have been added and the back tees play at least 300 yards longer.

The restoration of the greens looks very authentic to me.

Several fairway bunkers have been added and the fairway bunkering is much more of a factor than before. I don't know which are new and which are restorations of old bunkers.

Other than the added length, by far the most significant change is on the 14th and 15th holes. The tee on #14 has been moved forward and left and what was a short, weak dogleg right par 5 is now a very strong, fairly straight par 4. Number 15 was previously a long straight par 4. Nearly 100 yards have been added and it is now a good par 5. I am told that this brings the course back to its original configuration. In any case, it is a big improvement.

The course will now be a very stern test, and it will be important for players to choose the correct tees or it won't be as much fun as it used to be.

Overall, I am very pleased.  However, I am not so sure the course will really be ready to play this fall. When I saw it a month ago, the bermuda fairways still had a lot of growing to do and the growing season for bermuda here is pretty much over.

If I were planning a trip, I would wait until next summer.

It is still the second best non-private course in NC. Second only to #2.  I have often said that if it were a private club, it would have a long waiting list.


Jim Lewis

[Dunlop_White]

I went for a ride-through last weekend. Pat McGowan told me that grow-in was disturbed by the Hurricanes passing through. It certainly appears that way. All sodded and seeded areas look immature. They will be fortunate to open by Oct. 18.

Fought did a good job of bringing the old landforms back into play from the tee. Greens look nice as well. I like everything about the "restoration" .... I would have liked the bunkers better though if they had been shaped differently.

Looks like they went too light/shallow on their depths.... probably because it's a resort course. I understand, but Ross was no push-over with bunker depths. Plus their shoulders appear much too clean and smooth.

Its a great place that just got even better. I agree with Jim Lewis ..... if it were private, it would have a waiting list.

[Brent Hutto]

I had wondered about the October opening and the whole Bermuda grow-in versus growing season issue. I take it that the greens are coming along better than the fairways. It would seem that waiting until summer is most prudent.

When I played 36 holes at Pine Needles in February I believe I hit into a fairway bunker on the very first hole of the day and that was it. I'm not a very good or accurate ball-striker so in general it's rare that a good course will fail to snag my tee shot at least once a round. The course was playing very firm and fast that time of year and additional fairway bunkering would certainly increase the likelihood of difficulty.

As for renovation/restoration it was not my intent to make a value judgement by my choice of terms. Hopefully the Bell family have thick skins and won't hold it against me.

[Michael Plunkett]

I'd wait. I stayed at the resort in Aug for a golf workshop and it didn't look anywhere near done, although on the phone, they swear mid Oct it will open. Is it worth a renovation and then blow it with a too early re-opening?

[hhuffines]

Wondered if anyone has been there to play yet?  I agree
with Dunlop on the few bunkers I've seen so far.

Does anyone know the budget for the project?

Jim Lewis - I hope youre doing well!

Thanks.

[jim_lewis]

Hello Hart:

I am, in fact, doing quite well. Thanks. Our second course will be open in a few months. I hope you will come down and play it. Maybe we can get Ran to break away and join us.

The re-opening of Pine Needles has been postponed. The new date is some time in mid or late November. As reported above, the fairway grass has not grown in adequately. They blame it on relatively cool weather in August and September.  I have not been back over there, but I doubt if the bermuda is growing much now and I suspect the fairways won't be good until late spring.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Ran - what's this mean for our spring trip???  JC

[jim_lewis]

My comments about the condition of the fairways are based on a tour of the course about 5 weeks ago. Just to be sure that I am not putting out flawed information, I'll try to get over there tomorrow and take a look. I'll report back.

[hhuffines]

Jim,

I'm excited for you guys about your second course-I'm hearing it looks awesome.

I talked with Pine Needles yesterday and they advised house
guests only could play until sometime this week.  The pro
said I could play as early as Friday but I'm worried about
the conditions as well.

I look forward to hearing what you think.  Thanks.

[jim_lewis]

Hart:

I took another look at Pine Needles this afternoon. My limited sample included 3 fairways, 2 greens, and one tee. I also spoke to a couple of players who were on the 15th hole.  Based on what I saw and heard, the course is in better condition than I expected. The tees, greens and green surrounds are good.  The fairways look good because the overseeded rye masks the thin and bare spots in the bermuda. There are lots of thin and bare spots in the fairways and rough, but if you are willing to nudge the ball in the fairway, it should be quite playable. They did require carts to be on the paths today, and I don't know what their walking policy is.

If you are planning to be here soon, I would not hesitate to play the course.  My guess is that the conditions I saw today will remain through next spring. When the rye dies back in May, the weakness of the bermuda will be exposed until it begins to grow in June. That transition period roughly between mid-May and mid-June could be a time to avoid the course. But what do I know about growing grass?

[Scott_Burroughs]

I don't know what their walking policy is.

Prior to the restoration, it was walking allowed any time.

[michael j fay]

The restoration of Pine Needles is really a restoration. As Jim Lewis mentioned # 14 and #15 have reversed par and a lot of new long tees have been added.

The new tees are on the longer par four holes. Many of the fairways on the par four holes are crowned. You drive the ball up and over a hill and down the other side. The crowns on these fairways (#6, #7, # 11, #12) were around 230 yards from the back tee. They are all now in excess of 280 yards. Now a carry of about 285 is needed to get to the downhill. This restores the original strategy of the 1928 Ross course.

Another new feature is a new 10th green which was moved about 60 yards back and left of the previous green (not an original Ross green).

I would agree with Dunlop that the bunkers were not dug back to Ross depths.

All in all, Pine Needles is one of the best golf experiences in North Carolina.

[hhuffines]

Jim,

Thanks for taking a look and reporting back!

Michael,

Any idea on a budget estimate for the project?

Thanks!

Hart

[michael j fay]

I never thought to ask.

[Jonathan Cummings]

I can't agree with Michael more.  First timers to Pinehurst will do themselves wrong if they only play the Pinehurst courses.  Pine Needles is simply a gem - easy top 100 classic.  However, I have never thought as highly of Mid-Pines.

JC

[Jason Tetterton]

Mid Pines is a good course, but in very poor condition.  If management would see fit to put some money into it, they would have two good courses.  But, for now they have Pine Needles and the ugly step sister (Mid Pines).  The layout is a solid test from any set of tees.    

[michael j fay]

I would only say all in good time. The Bell Family is no newcomer to the golf business and I suspect that they will address the Mid Pines situation. As it is the Mid Pines course has been in very good condition whenever I have played it.

I don't see the ugly stepsister so much as a little gem that needs some new surfaces and a some TLC. When you have one of your two courses closed, the open one takes the brunt.

Mid Pines is a great venue and should be prime for the hickory event they have going from Nov. 12-14.

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