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CHrisB

Report from Crenshaw's Austin Golf Club
« on: March 03, 2004, 10:40:39 PM »
I played Austin Golf Club today, and thought I'd share some of
my impressions and observations. The design is mostly
Crenshaw, with some help by Bill Coore but not a true
collaboration. This is definitely Crenshaw's club--he was
instrumental in the formation of the club and has had a hand
in everything that goes on there. He was there for much of
the day today. There is a quiet, rustic feel to the place that
fits with the location of the club, and everything is very
much "low-profile".

The course sits on true "Texas Hill Country" terrain, with
plenty of live oaks, cactus, native grasses and scrub. The
clubhouse is on the high point of the property, with the holes
fanning out below on a broad slope with some hills but nothing
overly severe.

Some observations:
1. The course has zoysia grass from the tee through the
green (bent greens).
2. There is no rough around any of the greens. It is all
fairway-cut zoysia, and most of the greens are slightly
elevated, often with "shoulders" that drop off into chipping
areas and into bunkers, some of which are quite steep.
3. On a breezy day under firm conditions, the course would
present some of the same challenges that Pinehurst #2 does,
as the effective green size shrinks and balls get repelled off of
greens and into bunkers and chipping areas.
4. The added challenge here, though, with the zoysia grass
chipping areas is that the grain tends to grow more heavily
down the slopes, and so you could be faced with having to
hit a running pitch or chip up a slope with the grain hard into
you, but the green running away. You must control the spin
just right.
5. The green sizes vary somewhat with the length of the hole
being played. Holes like the 454-yard 5th, and the long
downhill par 4 11th, which stretches to 511 from the back
tee, have larger greens running slightly away from the line of
play. Holes like the 325-yard 2nd, the 366-yard 17th, and
especially the 131-yard 8th, have tiny or narrow greens.
6. There are only 2 par 5's (both over 580 yards, but both
reachable with big hits), and 4 par 3's for a par of 70.
7. The tiny 8th followed by Crenshaw's version of "Hell's Half
Acre" on the 584-yard 9th is reminiscent of the 13th and 14th
at Tillinghast's Baltimore CC, a short par 3 to a small target
followed by a Hell's Half Acre par 5.
8. I liked the set of par 3's and thought there was good
variety there: 187, 131, 238 and 207 yards, running in
different directions although the first two both run slightly up
the hill in a similar direction. The 131-yard 8th with its tiny
green and deep bunkers was excellent, but the best was the
238-yard 10th, slightly downhill across a valley to a super
greensite atop a diagonal ledge.
9. Austin Golf Club is a great walking course. There are short
walks from green to the next tee (with the exception of #9-
#10 across the clubhouse parking lot), and according to the
GM/Head Pro there will never be homes anywhere near the
golf course property.
10. Interesting features include the stone wall lining the left
side of the driving area on the 409-yard 4th; the diagonal
trench bunker on the long par-4 11th, running from about 130
yards out on the left side, crossing in front of the green
about 30 or 40 yards short of the green (split in two by a
grass walkway to the green), and continuing on to the right
side of the green. Reminded me a little of a similar feature on
the 1st at Rustic Canyon, but this trench bunker is much
bigger.
11. There is only one water feature on the course, a spring
lying short left of the 428-yard dogleg right 12th. Most of
the "hazards" are the live oak trees, from the single standing
one on the fairway like on #1 and #15, to thicker clusters of
trees like those lining the 5th, at the corner of the 7th, and
pinching the 12th. Contrary to what I had heard about the
course, a missed fairway is not a lost ball, but it could be a
punch-out if you are stuck in or behind the trees, with lies
ranging from good to "thick".
12. There is good variety to the size, placement and depth of
the greenside bunkers. Some practically eat into the putting
surface; others are set off from the surface but could gather
the ball that rolls just off the green. Some of the bunkers are
quite deep, and many lie well below the surface of the green.
13. The 6th, 9th and 18th holes are all atop the main hill, in
view from the clubhouse, and the 6th green connects with
the putting green next to the first tee, "separated" by a
couple of mounds in the green.
14. The finishing hole is 436 yards to an elevated green with
the flagpole as an aiming point and the clubhouse sitting atop
the hill above left of the green. The hole is named after
Harvey Penick (the 5th hole is named "Take Dead Aim").
15. I imagine that Crenshaw will continue to tinker with the
course over time, as Ross did at Pinehurst #2. Just this month
a new bunker was added to the back right of the 4th green,
and to the front left of the 14th.

Obviously as this was my first round there, these are only my
first impressions of the course. It is certainly a very enjoyable
place to play golf, with some fun shots and some very
demanding shots. It looks like a course (like Pinehurst #2)
that will really show its teeth when it gets firm, fast and
breezy, and it's no surprise that the course was designed by
someone with a superior short game. Looks like you'll really
need it at Austin Golf Club.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2004, 12:02:45 PM by ChrisB »

Jeff_Mingay

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Re:Report from Crenshaw's Austin Golf Club
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2004, 10:59:02 PM »
A quick thought... it amazes me, there's really been no talk about Crenshaw's Austin GC. No magazine articles; no rankings; no buzz at GolfClubAtlas.com...

Personally, not having visited yet, the course, club, and concept intrigues me... I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about this place.
jeffmingay.com

Norbert P

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Re:Report from Crenshaw's Austin Golf Club
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2004, 02:17:10 AM »
 Nice report Chris, thanks.  I was hoping to make a Texas trip this Summer and get down to Austin for Barton Creek and request the honor of playing Austin Golf Club but they are even under Google dot com's radar.  
BenCrenshaw.com doesn't have much info on it either.  Just a simple picture and a sentence of description.  


 Do you happen to know of the web address of the club if they have one? I know it's private but this place is tougher to find than Bruce Wayne's Bat Cave.
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

John Foley

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Re:Report from Crenshaw's Austin Golf Club
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2004, 08:40:21 AM »
Chris,

I was in Austin in Nov and wanted to at least drive by the place, but could find no address, web site or anything.

Where in the Austin area is it located?
Integrity in the moment of choice

Scott_Burroughs

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Re:Report from Crenshaw's Austin Golf Club
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2004, 09:28:08 AM »
Chris,

Glad you were finlaly able to get out to see AGC.  No pics to grace us with?   ;D  

To the rest of you, I think you need some Google search
lessons.   ::)   :)   A simple search on the phrase "Austin Golf
Club" brings up several links with the address of the club.  

Page 1 reveals:  Austin Golf Club 25400 Hwy
71 West    Spicewood , TX 78669 (512) 264-9787

Spicewood is something like 25 miles west of town.

The address is how I found the aerial (AOTD #168) here
(sorry if people tire of me posting aerials in non-AOTD threads):



There has been buzz and commentary on the quality of the
course and club by one person here in the past:  Kyle Hegland.

John Foley

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Re:Report from Crenshaw's Austin Golf Club
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2004, 09:42:51 AM »
SCott,

Thanks for the aerial and the location. I'll now go practice my Google skills :)

BTW - Gotta love those gree surrounds.

There was also a write up on GCA a long, long time ago from Geoff Schackleford I think.
Integrity in the moment of choice

Lou_Duran

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Re:Report from Crenshaw's Austin Golf Club
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2004, 11:26:40 AM »
Chris,

Congratulations on getting on.  I've tried a couple of times with no success.  Apparently, it is as private as it gets in this part of the country, and it does not care for publicity (reportedly, it wouldn't even give its address to a local paper).

Incidentally, it was "ranked" in the "Dallas Morning News" in the fourth 10 of its "50 Best Courses" list.  I thought that perhaps it just hadn't been seen enough to garner a higher ranking, but at least 20 panelists played the course.  Nearby Spanish Oaks, a Weed course that I really like, was also ranked in this range.

Hill Country golf is an acquired taste.  With the harsh topography and environment, the courses don't have to be long to be torture chambers.  I hope that Ben provided some width and cleared the surrounding sufficiently to allow for firm, fast, rugged, and windy.


CHrisB

Re:Report from Crenshaw's Austin Golf Club
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2004, 11:54:17 AM »
Nice aerial, Scott. Any idea when it was taken? My guess is
just at or after opening...looks like construction going on
around the clubhouse.

Crenshaw's Hell's Half Acre 9th is at the bottom center, but
there is now a nest of bunkers where the aerial shows just
mounds.

The wall hole (4th) is at the far right and the wall can be
seen linig the left side of the driving area.

The huge green near the clubhouse is the 6th and the putting
green. You can see the mounds that "separate" the two in
the aerial.

The long diagonal trench bunker on the 11th can be seen at
the far left of the aerial.

erichunter

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Re:Report from Crenshaw's Austin Golf Club
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2004, 12:04:40 PM »
Chris,

I was in Austin in Nov and wanted to at least drive by the place, but could find no address, web site or anything.

Where in the Austin area is it located?

John--
It is west of Austin beyond Bobby Weed's Spanish Oaks.  It is near Barton Creek's Palmer (Lakeside) course.  You can see it on the drive to the Palmer course.  Hoping to play in April with a member.

Charlie

Re:Report from Crenshaw's Austin Golf Club
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2004, 02:35:39 PM »
What a great website,  Just got done reading discussion group questions about Austin Golf Club.  ChrisB played yesterday and I have known him since high school.  He did a great job descibing the course for only having played it one time.  I will be happy to answer any questions that I can about the club.  Some things are confidential but I'm sure Mr. Crenshaw would not mind if i answered questions about the golf course.  Unfortunatley I do not have the internet at home so if it takes me awhile to respond i apologize.

Charlie

Scott_Burroughs

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Re:Report from Crenshaw's Austin Golf Club
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2004, 04:27:48 PM »
Chris,

I don't know when the aerial was taken, but it was before
Dec 1, 2001, which is the date of GlobeXplorer's current aerial
of AGC (they've updated - I can see changes from the one
above - new stuff that wasn't there), althought the HHA was
still not full of sand on the update one.

I can see similarities with the green complexes of AGC and
those of Chechessee Creek, built at the same time.  Long and
narrow, shaped like a cross between ovals and rectangles,
raised, sloping back to front (you can tell this from some of
the shadows of the greenside bunkers in the upper middle),
flanked by bunkers on the sides.  Gives a guy fits if he's the
right distance but not straight (like me) vs. a guy who's
straight but not the right distance.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2004, 04:28:11 PM by Scott_Burroughs »

CHrisB

Re:Report from Crenshaw's Austin Golf Club
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2004, 10:57:26 AM »
Charlie,

The question I have heard asked most often on here when
Austin Golf Club is discussed is:

Why is it not getting more attention nationally?

Some say it is the location of the club (central Texas is
definitely not Philly or Long Island, NY), some say that not
many have seen the course due to the private nature of the
club and and that the course is not seeking attention, and
some say that the course is just a cut below some of
Crenshaw's better designs.

AGC seems to be flying under everyone's radar, but even at
first look it obviously has great architectural interest, some
unique features, and tremendous short-game interest.

There was a thread on here recently that asked if anyone
would notice if Pinehurst #2 were built today. The point was
made that without an ultra-dramatic property like Pacific
Dunes, Sand Hills or Friar's Head, and without the propaganda
that accompanies so many new modern designs...the
new "classics" that emphasize strategy, subtlely, and natural
features over flash, artifical hazards, and visual "eye candy"
will tend to go unnoticed.

Might that be the case with AGC?

ChipRoyce

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Re:Report from Crenshaw's Austin Golf Club
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2004, 07:35:32 PM »
Funny this topic has come up. I have pointed out Austin Golf Club (locally referred to as AGC) when folks ask about good golf in the area with few comments.

ChrisB;

In regards to your question, why is it not getting more attention nationally....

I've been down here in Austin for past 1.5 years... and have learned a bit about the club from a couple of AGC members are also members at my club (Great Hills).

Long story short, this is definately Ben's club. Very much a men's second club with a rather small membership. I gather the membership is mostly local, and monied (ex Dell folks, and other biz leaders from the community). They don't seek publicity 'cause 1) its not their style or the way things are done here in Austin (very low key place - millionaires wear jeans on the courses) 2) not sure Ben's seeking publicity (don't think raters were invited to come check things out).

I too am hoping to get on AGC this year at some point - anyone comes down to the area, be sure to drop me a line. Great tex-mex, barbeque and plenty of good golf to be had.

ChipRoyce

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Re:Report from Crenshaw's Austin Golf Club
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2004, 07:37:18 PM »
In regards to the photo above, although this area is quite Dry and most grasses tend to look like hay, this picture seems to have been taken in the winter. Note the dormant grass around the greens. The fairways look to be overseeded, the greens being bent are probably normal.

Norbert P

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Re:Report from Crenshaw's Austin Golf Club
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2004, 08:01:06 PM »
A simple search on the phrase "Austin Golf
Club" brings up several links with the address of the club.  

 Austin Golf Club 25400 Hwy
71 West    Spicewood , TX 78669 (512) 264-9787

Thanks Scott for the research and picture, but if I may repeat myself repeat myself...

 "Does anybody know the website URL or the e-mail address of the Austin Golf Club?" if there is one. (And NOT the Austin COUNTRY Club.)

  Thank you kindly, Norbert of the Oregon Department of Redundancy Department
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Matt_Ward

Re:Report from Crenshaw's Austin Golf Club
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2004, 08:13:19 PM »
Lou D:

From all the folks you know in the Lone Star State do they believe the layout is even better than what it was listed in the Dallas Morning News? I have heard a few really high comments.

Do they believe it's beyond Jack's layout at Cimmaron Hills?

Many thanks ...

P.S. Can zyosia really ever foster the ground game when in full bloom?

CHrisB

Re:Report from Crenshaw's Austin Golf Club
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2004, 10:57:11 PM »
Slag,
AGC does not appear to have a website. Doubt they'd have a
use for one anyway from the sound of it...

Chip,
It looks like we'll have to get together sometime
because I just joined Great Hills in January! I'll send you an
email or IM when I return to town and get a little time
(traveling now and just making a quick post before this topic
moves off the first page). Please do the same if you'd like.

Matt,
That's what I was wondering as well. Does zoysia get dry and
firm, or does it stay "spongy" or "sticky"? That would make a
huge difference around the greens at AGC.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2004, 10:59:27 PM by ChrisB »

Lou_Duran

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Re:Report from Crenshaw's Austin Golf Club
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2004, 11:39:08 PM »
Matt:

I have yet to hear from anyone that thought AGC was a great course.  Difficult, rugged, rustic, yes.  I don't know if the feature shaping is just very simple or that the course lacks variety or pazzaz (sp).  For whatever reason, it has not made the impression that other C&C courses outside of Texas have made.  The same is true of their course at Barton Creek which I have not played either (which is generally considered the weaker of the four courses there).

Conversely, the buzz about Spanish Oaks and Cimarron Hills has been very positive.  I have played both of these and they are wonderful.  And while Spanish Oaks has kept a relatively low profile (not very receptive to raters either), both it and Cimarron Hills have a residential real estate component and associated marketing.

Re: zoysia, I suspect that the dryer climate in Austin will make it easier to maintain in firmer conditions.  I am unaware of other courses in that area with zoysia, and am surprised to hear that Crenshaw chose that grass.

 

Matt_Ward

Re:Report from Crenshaw's Austin Golf Club
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2004, 01:07:01 PM »
Lou:

Thanks. I'm glad the folks in Texas don't fall prey to awarding "brownie points" on design simply because of a native son. I wonder if others who are enthralled with anything that C&C do would admit the obvious when they say they view things in an evenhanded manner when reviews are forthcoming.


Norbert P

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Re:Report from Crenshaw's Austin Golf Club
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2004, 04:56:46 PM »
ChrisB said...  "It is certainly a very enjoyable
place to play golf, with some fun shots and some very
demanding shots. It looks like a course (like Pinehurst #2)
that will really show its teeth when it gets firm, fast and
breezy, and it's no surprise that the course was designed by
someone with a superior short game. ..."

  As someone who really appreciates what I've seen from C&C and have been educated immensely
by them, directly or indirectly through their results, I'd love to see and play this course.  Chris's final
 summation solidifies why we travel so far for inspiration.  And if Barton Creek is considered the
weakest of the four area courses, I'd have to see and play it to even take that report into viable
 consideration. I'm not trying to place anyone on a pedestal but until I see anything less than a
portrayal of respectable land worth ethic from these guys, I cannot imagine a less than interesting result.

 I am a fan of Stanley Kubrick movies but Eyes Wide Shut was tough to praise. Still, I know that his
past efforts of vision and uniqueness as a filmmaker draws me in to try to understand his motives of
why this story compelled him to choose it for a project to work on.  
   
« Last Edit: March 06, 2004, 04:58:51 PM by Slag__Bandoon »
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Charlie

Re:Report from Crenshaw's Austin Golf Club
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2004, 10:57:37 PM »
ChrisB,
Have not been on the web in awhile.  I will attempt to answer your questions.  AGC has really flown under the radar due to Ben not seeking publicity.  The club is not restricted to anyone, Ben has more than once said that anyone who wants to rate or write about the golf course is more than welcome to play the course as long as they are invited to play with a member.  As for the design aspect of the course all I can do is draw upon my own playing experiences and local knowledgeof the course since architecture is something that i am just getting into.  When I explain to people what it is like to play AGC I tell them it is like playing Royal Melbourne and the Sand Hills combined.  You see everything that makes those courses so extroidinary rolled into the course.  Ben started and designed the course in my humble opinion out of his true love for the game.  Andhe searched out a membership that had his love for the game.  There is no frills built into the course, what you see is what you get and I do not think I have ever played a more fair golf course than this one. Everything about it screams old school.1. There are no yardage markers to help you play by feel. 2. The golf course is probably one of the easiest walking courses you'll ever play,75% of play is walk and carry or with a caddie. 3. He offers you the opportunity to hit almost any club in your bag on every approach. 4.  Any geen you miss you can use your imagination and hit any shot that you can possibly think of.  These are just some of my thoughts I would love to discuss anything anybody wants to about the course.  The last great thing that he did that i really do love almost as much as the golf course is cell phones are restricted to the parking lot only.

Charlie

CHrisB

Re:Report from Crenshaw's Austin Golf Club
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2004, 11:46:41 PM »
Charlie,
That's a great point and one I failed to mention in my report:
there are no yardage markers on the course. I don't know of
any other modern course built without yardage markers. (I
might have to start another thread about that!)

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