[Mike Hendren]

I am intrigued by the diversity of opinions.  Let's say I'm gonna be in the area in late March.  Whether you think it is great of overrated, do you suggest I stay an extra day to play it from a purely architectural education standpoint?

Mike

[A_Clay_Man]

Bill- Thats not the same hole! Where's the cart path?  

thanx

Mike- Yes !

[THuckaby2]

Great stuff, AC.  And I REALLY appreciate the time and effort there, because it does have me thinking and you know what?  I'm also nodding my head in agreement re all of that.  I guess I just get so overwhelmed by how freakin' TOUGH the course is, particularly from the back tees, that I have always lost sight of the subtleties of what is really going on, as you have listed.  Great stuff.

Some notes:

11 - short of the bunkers works better for those for whom closer to the green is always better, which if one believes Dave Pelz is the vast majority of golfers.  For the skilled player, sure, lay up to proper full swing yardage, because that green is tough to hold being as raised as it is.  And yes, one does have to allow for downhill roll on the layup second.  Great stuff - way more thought involved than I had given it credit.

14 - well, when one plays the whites, or one is very long from the blues/blacks, it is reachable, that's why I find it fun risk/reward.  But you're right, not many do go for that green and then the key becomes where to leave the 2nd, which also ain't easy.  We had a REALLY hard time deciding on this for the NCGA course rating - that is, where to leave the scratch's 2nd shot... There is no easy/obvious choice and the water sure does complicate things.  One thing I do love also is the wild contours in that green and you are damn right, that top left shelf is a devil.  I really like this hole... which means Rich will likely pooh-pooh it now!  

15 - good call.  More 4's and 5's are achieved than 2's there, and there sure as hell is a lot of grumbling.

TH

ps to Mike - oh shit yes, it's worth seeing... just not if you have to make a 1:20 flight out of SJC!

[Matt_Ward]

Spyglass benefits from being "in the hood" to PB and CP. Clearly, there has been a gain from being a member of the troika that hosts the Crosby -- oops the AT&T. Exsposure builds familiarity which builds opportunities to build a following.

In my mind -- Spyglass receives the same spill-over effect that a course like Maidstone gets with SH and NGLA being so nearby. Internally, both Spyglass (the opening holes) and Maidstone (dunes holes) benefit from a particular part of their designs being so unique and special -- the issue becomes for me at least -- are the parts really as good as the whole deal. In my mind -- no.

I don't believe the change of character (land wise that is) should be held against Spyglass. The issue for me becomes one of redundancy as you proceed from the 6th hole all the way to the conclusion. Clearly, a decision was made to go for ths gusto with the ocean holes early and as a result there's bound to be a bit of a letdown. For what it's worth I would rate the 4th at Spyglass as one of the finest mid-length par-4's I have played -- too bad Trent Jones didn't have more such holes up his sleeve.

In my own grouping of courses I would likely have Spyglass towards the rear end of my top 100. Huck is quite right -- the difficulty quotient has been the mechanism for the course to gain stature by those who place a premium value on such matters but from a straight architectural analysis -- routing, variety of holes, shot values -- Spyglass is no different than a host of other such courses I have played.

Like I said before -- it certainly helps to have a mailing address that includes Monterey Peninsula.

[Jeff Goldman]

So Matt, you think it (and Maidstone) gets a draft from the courses located nearby??  Pshaw (or Patshaw)!!  

Jeff Goldman

[Matt_Ward]

Jeff:

The long and short of it -- yes!

[A_Clay_Man]

Another take on the same effect, is the similar climatic regions, soil characteristics etc. etc. At Spy, I swear there's an extra dose of gravity. It occurs in at least two spots. Definitely on the coast holes 3,4 & 5. But also, on 11, where the stream use to cut across the fairway. It makes sense to me that the water which still runs underneath, can have an effect. Whether it be temperate or otherwise. The coastal influence, I chalk up to the steep ledge to deep deep water very close to that spot on the coast.

Call me nuts but trust my yardage.

[THuckaby2]

AC:  I for one would never call you nuts and there is no one from whom I would MORE trust yardages.  

But isn't it just more effect of Javier?  Aw hell, whatever is going on, I trust the ball just plain doesn't stay in the air as long in those spots.

I've also always felt this effect at Olympic Club, nearly year-round, all rounds... Javier seems to have permament residence there.  Maybe I'm nuts, quite likely, but I just add one club to each shot there, and it seems to work very well.  Can't remember any airmails.

TH

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