[APBernstein]

My home club, Berry Hills CC in Charleston, WV, hosted the first round of the West Virginia Open yesterday.  At only 6300 yards and a par of 70, it is 700 yards shorter than last year's venue, Pete Dye Golf Club.

So far, the scores are a good bit higher than last year's total.  There was one score registered under par--a 69 by an amateur.  The average score came in around 77.

It is really fun to see people struggle with the pitch of the greens and being tempted to hit driver when it just isn't the play.

We will see how the rest of the week turns out.

[John_Conley]

I love it  I LOVE IT  I LOVE IT.

Thanks for sharing.  I've jotted some numbers down on a napkin and know that both nines under 3100 yards works if you take par down to 70 and introduce one short par 4 per side.  (Note:  It won't work if you think a good championship par 3 HAS TO BE 220 yards.)

A tour pro was in my office yesterday (MC at Westchester) when I asked him about yardage.  He said you can't call Westchester short at 6700 because they have two short par 4s and a real short par 3 that are hard because of small greens and awkward doglegs.

THANK YOU!  

So many things come back to help illustrate (I think PROVE is appropriate) my point, that I'm amazed all the courses opening around me have 5 sets of tees or more and stretch to 7300 yards.

[APBernstein]

Here are the yardages are they are playing them (with par in paranthesis)...

1  360 (4)
2  380 (4)
3  175 (3)
4  510 (5)
5  465 (4)
6  340 (4)
7  200 (3)
8  360 (4)
9  520 (5)
10 390 (4)
11 390 (4)
12 150 (3)
13 540 (5)
14 220 (3)
15 380 (4)
16 360 (4)
17 420 (4)
18 190 (3)

[Evan Fleisher]

Interesting topic, guys!

My home course here in Dubuque, Iowa (the Dubuque Golf & Country Club) measures in at a whopping 6,000 (roughly) and a par of 70.  people see those numbers and think the course is a pushover...

...until they come off of the 18th green shaking their head wondering why they didnt; score well.

I think that short courses have a place in today's game, and can offer a multitude of shot options and challenges for any level of golfer.  As a matter of fact, in august we are holding the Iowa State Amateur Championships.  The last time it was contested at DGCC, the two-day winning total was around +1.

The severely sloping (and fast) greens, strategic bunkering, and not flat lies help to "protect" the course on every turn.  I truly enjoy playing there every day and am always up for a new challenge during each round.

I'm glad to see there are other examples of this type of course still around, and being used for competition purposes.  Get out there and enjoy 'em!  

[Ran Morrissett]

Swinley Forest is perfect because the best holes were strung together and then incidentally, the course measured 6,100 yards.

Andrew's course could be a real clunker at 6,300 yards. I don't know who did Berry Hill but it could be that the best possible holes/green placements would have meant the course should have measured 6,700 yards.

The sole question on any course: how good are its individual holes? Are they the best that the architect could have crafted from that particular property?

To give a course the thumbs up or down because it is 6,300 or 7,000 yards in length is meaningless.

As MacKenzie said when told that no one could break par at Pine Valley, "My god, what's wrong with it?"

[APBernstein]

Ran:

The course is pretty muched maxed out as far as yardage goes.

And by the way, David Gordon was the architect in 1952.

Considering the property, the general routing is pretty good.  There are a few changes that I would like to have made, especially involving some trees.  I think it has the potential to be REALLY good with some modification.

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