Is Quail Crossing Renaissance Golf's best conditioned course?

[Ted_Sturges]

On a recent visit to the metropolis of Boonville, Indiana, Ran and I enjoyed a round of golf at Quail Crossing.  The course was designed (as all of Renaissance's courses are) to encourage the ground game, and the bermuda/rye mix fairways were attractive and played perfect (very firm).  The greens were not real fast, but with the undulations there, they shouldn't get them much faster than 9 or 10 (they were probably .  

Renaissance Golf designs the type of courses we all love.  They move little dirt, so the course looks like it's been there forever, and they design strategic holes that allow (and at times beg) the golfer to play the game on the ground.  My question is this.  Why are so few of their courses maintained in a way to allow for the ground game?  So many of their courses are maintained too wet, and the golfer just can't play the type of golf the architect intended.  Below is a summary of the course conditions at all the Doak courses I have had the pleasure of playing (I don't include Pacific Dunes, because I won't see it until Sept.).

High Pointe - I think we are all familiar with this disappointing story.  If maintained as Tom intended, this is as fun a place to spend an afternoon as just about anywhere.

Stonewall - On my 2 visits there, the course played too soft.  I can remember plugging my tee shots on the 4th and the 10th.  The course is difficult because of the small greens, and is less fun to play because it isn't as firm as it could be.

Wilderness Valley - On my one visit there, the course played firm in places and soft in others.  I could have caught it on a post rain day.  The course was fun and had many spots to try the ground game.

Legends (Heathland) - On my one visit there, the course played perfect.  That was when Terry Buechen was there, and he has since left.  Do they still maintain the course as firm and fast as Terry did?

Apache Stronghold - My one visit there was very enjoyable.  The course is fun, strategic and begs the golfer to try the ground game.  The grow-in didn't seem to meet the standards of other Renaissance projects however, and I have been told that it might have gotten worse in the last year.

Lost Dunes - I'm a member there, and the conditions are a great frustration to me.  After walking The Old Course at St. Andrews in May, Ward Peyronnin (also a member @ LD) and I decided that the green complexes at Lost Dunes were more like St. Andrews than anything either of us had seen in the US.  If maintained firm and fast, Lost Dunes would be one of the funnest courses to play in the states.  As it is, we experience a totally wet ball park.  Drives plug, and if one attempts a run-up shot, it plugs and stops short.  Very sad and very frustrating.  If maintained properly, Lost Dunes would be a Top 50 in the US course in my opinion.

Beech Tree - During my one visit there, the course played firm and fast.  It was a fun course to play and was playing great.

Quail Crossing - Is maintained just right.  Tony Kemp is to be commended for having the wisdom to present the course as the architect intended.

How is Tom Doak so unlucky to have the majority of his courses presented in a way that doesn't utilize all his design features?  Is there anything that Tom or other architects can do to educate course owners on how the courses should be maintained?  Is US golf hopelessly in search of green?  Has anyone visited any of these courses lately who could provide any updates on how the courses are presented currently?  Comments please.

TS

[Jim Reilly]

Ted,

I think the problem is systemic rather than acute to Renaissance Golf courses.  Green sells and that's the bottom line.

I would find out who is giving your super orders to keep the course soggy and start there.  It's likely to be an uphill battle so you better get some ammunition.  Try Geoff Shackelford's Masters of the Links.  It's contains a nice article by Bobby Jones regarding maintaining firm greens to preserve a course's strategy.  Well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to extrapolate that the same logic applies to the rest of the course

[nicfic]

Ted: was thinking the same thing last week when I played Black Forest,the course was just too damn wet....I have played there 30 odd times and these wild green complexes lose a ton of fun when they are  not maintained properly...not too mention shots hit into familiar fairway positions  that just don't release and leave nasty downhill lies.

[Aaron]

Us golfers like our courses green and with lots of play that requires watering. It is too bad because brown grass does not mean the course is in bad condition.

We would probablly also save a little on green fees becuase of less fertilizer being used.

Aaron

[Tom_Doak]

I wonder if Jeff Brauer doesn't have exactly the same problem -- or any architect who doesn't work with $10 million budgets, who can be assured that the management will spend top dollar on conditioning, too.

More than half the courses we've done are being maintained in GREAT shape.  Ted hasn't seen Riverfront or Atlantic City, both of which have outstanding greens and firm fairways.  Pacific Dunes will be perfect by the fall [remember, some of it's only seven months old].  Beechtree is always firm, and I'm glad to hear that Quail Crossing is, too.

Some of those other courses may be partly my fault.  Early in my career I relied on surface drainage, so there's no backup underground if a portion of the course gets too much water, whether it's from sprinklers or from above.  I suspect this is why Black Forest always has wet spots, and Apache Stronghold, too.  So, we put $300K worth of drainage into the ground at Pacific Dunes on sand, just to make sure.  Live and learn!