[Mike Ventola]

This second sister described to me by a local as populated by disappointed souls was quite a wonderful round of golf to me.  The golf course was designed by Old Tom, (his first) is located on arguably one of the best pieces of links land in the world, next to the first great golf course with wonderful views of St. Andrews, The Sea, Wind ect…
Why doesn’t it get any respect as one of the great golf courses in the world?  

[ForkaB]

Mike

The "disappointed" souls are probably not locals, the ones of whom I know prefer the New to all the other course at St. Andrews, including TOC, but probably our fellow countrymen who have travelled 3-6,000 miles only to have failed to gain a place on TOC after the daily "ballot" (which I understand can now be circumvented through the exchange of certain numbers of monetary instruments, BTW).

The New is a very good, but not great course, and is regularly "ranked" in the top 100 courses in Europe.  I give it a solid 1* of my Michelin scale (putting it in the same class as Lahinch, Royal North Devon, Machrihanish, Nairn, Skibo, Gullane #1, etc.).

Anyone who visits St. Andrews and misses out the New course, is really missing something.  Anyone who plays it and is "disappointed" in the experience (rather than in the fact that they were unable to play TOC, which is understandable) is not a "golfer" but just a person who happens to play golf.  IMHO

Rich

[Mike Ventola]

Rich I am glad you agree with me.  On my visit I found The New to be a little better than Dornoch.  I came expecting the world from Dornoch and found it a long (beautiful) drive to a place where there are blind shots to narrow places not found in St. Andrews.  Dornoch was populated with slow playing  American’s (Golf Snobs) on a course that was a little to green for my taste.  (I did find Brora on the way so the drive was well worth it).

The new was a wonderful fast play in a beautiful place    

[kilfara]

All of which only goes to show that two golfers playing the same course can wind up with dramatically different experiences!

Mike, I really like the New Course, but in my (quite considerable) experience I never found the New Course to possess a much faster pace of play than the Old Course, never mind Dornoch. I don't doubt that your experience made you feel the way you did, but there you go. I've never played Dornoch in more than three-and-a-half hours. (Of course, I've never played it in the summer, either.)

Holes I really enjoy on the New course: 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11, 13, 15, 18. It's a fun course, and its reputation suffers from proximity to the Old. But I wouldn't call it "one of the great golf courses in the world"...there aren't any really outstanding holes, and IMHO the quality of the linksland isn't as consistently good as your superlatives imply. Glad you liked it, though!

Cheers,
Darren

[Bob_Huntley]

Darren:

Why is it that we disagree so much? I do believe that the par threes on the New are as good a bunch of short holes as you could find anywhere.

The ninth, especially from the Medal tees, with the wind and rain in your face is, to my mind one of the truly  scary holes in golf. The seventeenth, not terribly scenic or beautiful, requires a first class long iron or wood to set up a par.

Some years ago I decided to stay at St. Andrews for the whole two weeks instead of hiking off to pastures north. Playing both the New and TOC daily during that time I think I scored better on the Old.

[kilfara]

Bob,

Hmmm...on second thought, I'll agree with you on the par 3s. #5 is a really neat and tricky hole, #9 is tough as nails, and #13 is a personal favorite. #17 is long and demanding - the green is deceptively difficult - but rather featureless given the company. Are any of them outstanding? I'd say no, but the first three are all very, very good.

No disagreement here, either, that the New is tougher to score on than the Old. Mind you, the Jubilee is tougher than both of them, and the Eden may also be tougher than the Old (I rate them about 50/50). But greatness and difficulty don't always overlap by any means....

Cheers,
Darren

[ForkaB]

Mike

If you found Brora "on the way" to Dornoch you must have come via Skye, Durness and John O-Groats!  Are you sure that the green course with blind shots you played on the way to Brora was not the 9-holer at Helmsdale?

Bob and Darren

TOC, with it's quirky greens, can be set up to play a lot harder than can the New, for the top players.  Every year in the Links Trophy which draws many of the world's best amateurs, this is proven to be true.  A few years ago some Finnish guy shot a 60 on the New in this tournament.

[kilfara]

Rich, I agree: for top players, the Old Course can be made to play much tougher. For players like me, though, the Old offers much more lateral room for maneuver. There's a lot less gorse that can come into play on the Old than there is on the New. (The tee shot on no. 6 into the wind on the New is right up there with the two par 3 ninth holes on the New and Jubilee and the tee shot on Jubilee no. 15 as the most intimidating shots on St. Andrews, for me. On the Old, there's *always* room for safety should you wish to use it; in the main, double bogeys and worse come only when you don't.)

Cheers,
Darren

[Greg_Ramsay]

There can be little doubting that the New course is a much faster course than the Old.  I have lived in St. Andrews for a year in both 1995 and again last year, and whilst the Old had become noticeably busier and slower, the New course is still a very quick round- particularly Sept-April when it is just locals playing.

Couldn't agree more that Dornoch is overrated- largely I fear because Donald Ross had too much input into it when he was greenkeeper there in the late 1800's, building up greens, pushing up mounds behind bunkers etc.  I understand why Americans love it, it is something they are somewhat 'familiar' with, as Ross himself has had a greater influence than any other architect in shaping America's vision of what a golf course is and should be.

As for the New course, it is just brilliant. If it was studied as much as TOC I suspect that those criticising it would agree that is wonderfully different, not requiring as much imagination- but a more challenging examination of one's game.  

Still, for me, even on a slow day TOC is going to offer a more inspiring round of golf.

[ForkaB]

Greg

Glad to see the anti-Dornoch coalition building up steam!  Don't blame Ross for Dornoch, however--he had very little to do with the current course.  Blame Sutherland and Duncan.

Cheers

Rich

[CHrisB]

I have played the Links Trophy at St. Andrews three times, and the scoring was always better on the New Course (lately they have been playing the Jubilee as the other course).  1998 is the year that the scores were ridiculous; someone from Finland shot 79 on the Old in the morning and then 60 on the New that afternoon, and an Australian (Ogilvie?) needed to birdie the last hole on the New for a 59 but hit it over the green and made bogey for 61...  They usually get the green speeds high enough on the Old to make scoring a real problem, especially in the wind; last time I was there we waited a good 10 minutes for the group on #11 green to finish putting, because there was a player whose ball moved every time he tried to putt out...

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I love the New Course.

In fact, I think it is pretty much lost int he shadows of the Old Course as far as noteriety. How do you reside next to the greatest golf course in the world? Pretty stern task indeed.

Totally agree with Bob Huntley on the 9th. It's an extremely difficult shot with a cross wind from either direction. The hole before it is also just a phenominal green site camped-out behind those two dunes.

Call me crazy, but I found that some of the middle holes on the Jubilee are similary routed and reminescent of it's next door neighbor--The New Course.

I wouldn't be so bold to compare the New Course to Dornoch, especially since I haven't been to Dornoch. But I can say that it is indeed a great opening of what is in store for a vacation in the Kingdom. It was the first true links I had ever played, and that means something!

[John Bernhardt]

To compare the new to RD is an insult to the great course up north. However the new is a delightful course in the good but not great category. I found the 3's to be very strong.when the conditioning is up to par it it behind TOC, Carnoustee and Kingsbarns in Fife for disirablilty to play for me. The only thing that holds it down a little is the traps are not as strong or strategic as on the TOC. 17 and 18 are good finishing holes too.

[John Bernhardt]

To compare the new to RD is an insult to the great course up north. However the new is a delightful course in the good but not great category. I found the 3's to be very strong.when the conditioning is up to par it it behind TOC, Carnoustee and Kingsbarns in Fife or the fife area  for disirablilty to play for me. The only thing that holds it down a little is the traps are not as strong or strategic as on the TOC. 17 and 18 are good finishing holes too.

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