[Tim_Weiman]

Thirty five years ago Sports Illustrated published "The Best 18 Golf Holes in America" by Dan Jenkins.

I still consider it one of the more enjoyable books in my golf architecture collection. Certainly, it was the book which originally inspired me to travel and see as much of the golf world as I could.

Leaving aside the selections he made, I'm wondering what people think of this book???

Was it the beginning of the "renaissance" of golf architecture books?  Did it make you want to travel and see what Jenkins wrote about?  Did you ever stand on the 3rd tee at Olympic and think of the cover of SI's book?

[SPDB]

what are the 18 holes?

[Cory]

Numbers 16, 17 and 18 at Sand Hills would have my vote when it came to the strongest in the world.

[Tim_Weiman]

SPDB:

I was really more interested in what people that about the format, Jenkin's writing and the place of the book in say post 1950 golf architecture literature.

I don't mind listing the holes, but debating the list of holes wasn't my interest.

Anyway:

1 - Merion
2 - Scioto
3 - Olympic
4 - Baltusrol
5 - Colonial
6 - Seminole
7 - Pine Valley
8 - Prairie dunes
9 - Champions

10 - Winged Foot
11 - Merion
12 - Augusta
13 - The Dunes
14 - Cherry hills
15 - Oakmont
16 - Oakland Hills
17 - Quail Creek
18 - Pebble Beach

[Matt_Ward]

With all due respect to Dan Jenkins I have to question the most recent listing of the 18 best holes he featured about two years ago in GD. Many of the holes were really borderline and did not feature a number of outstanding new courses that have opened.

I think if you really want to add holes to any such prospective listing it would make for interesting to get feedback from everyone on holes from courses that have opened since 1990. This would elevate the discussion beyond simply adding the usual suspects such as the 12th at ANGC or the 16th at CPGC, the 8th at PB, etc, etc.

There's plenty of wonderful courses that have opened in the last 11 years. I can tell you my top long par-4 would be the 5th at Bandon Dunes ... an absolute bear when played in the wind and no pushover even when played downwind.

I put together my listing of top 18 holes later on when time permits just to get the ball rolling.

Regards,

P.S. I would also vote for the 18th at Sand Hills ... a really solid closer of a hole! I will be listing my holes in the slot they occupy on the course they're situated and keep the dream 18 to a par-72 for total balance.

[Tom_Doak]

Matt,

What I'd really like to know is how many new golf holes are comparable to the best old standards.

The Jenkins/Ron Whitten list two years ago was extremely politically correct as far as its "honorable mentions."  Every respected designer got one or two; few of us really think they picked our best hole.

I'd love to see the architects who contribute here pick nominate their own best holes:  not 18 of them for God's sake, but 3-5 that are really noteworthy.  I'll follow if someone else leads.

PS  If you really want the truth, about 2/3 of the great golf holes in the world are overseas.  American architecture is much much too standardized.

[Chris_Hervochon]

After Mr. Doaks post I would also like to hear what everybody else's 3-5 top holes are.
But before I start, since I have never mentioned Mr. Doak in any of my posts, I would just like to say now he is a welcome breath of fresh air in the world of golf and I think most of his ideas can be ranked as absolutely provacative if not pure genius.  Without further ado here are my top 4:

#15- The Ocean Course (some of the most interesting contours I have ever seen on a golf hole let alone a par-5.  Even though there are massive dunes all around, the most difficult obstacle is the wind and the contours.)
#7- Pine Valley
#16- Cypress Point (of course)
#8- Pebble Beach

Now what is everybody else's list?

[Paul Turner]

Anyone familiar with a UK+Ir best 18?  I'm sure there's been a few published but I don't recall.  Was Patrick Dickinson's "A Round of Golf Courses" confined to the UK+Ir?

[John Bernhardt]

I actually have a list, but here a few that I can remember.
1. Maclahanish
2.
3.Olympic
4.
5.Turnberry
6.Pacific Dunes
7.Troon
8.Pebble
9.Cypress
10.Oh well I will find the list later, but 14 at dornoch, 12 augusta, 15 cyress, 16 carnoustee, 18 pebble

[GeoffreyC]

Tim

I don't really see the merit of listing a group of unrelated holes from different courses based on hole number.  Their hole number is not really relevant in this context.  I like the format from the book listing the 500 best golf holes better.

That said, here is my list of best US 18 from those I've played (I have to think more to add overseas holes but I agree with Tom Doak that they would change the list a lot).

1- Plainfield/ Winged Foot West/ Inniscrone
2- Pine Valley/ Lehigh
3- Fenway/ Pinehurst 2/ Myopia Hunt
4- Bethpage Black/ Yale/ Spyglass
5- Pine Valley/ Pinehurst 2/ Bethpage Black
6- Seminole/ Quaker Ridge
7- Pebble Beach/ Pine Valley
8- Pebble Beach/ Pine Valley
9- Yale/ Philadelphia Cricket/ Rockaway Hunt
10-Winged Foot West/ Pine Valley
11-Pasatiempo/ Quaker Ridge
12-Stanford, Inniscrone
13-Knoll Golf Club, Pine Valley
14-Rolling Green/ Fenway
15-Bethpage Black/ Fenway
16-Pasatiempo/ Westchester CC
17-Bethpage Black/ Baltusrol Lower
18-Seminole/ Yale/ Philadelphia Cricket

The list might change a bit if I thought about it more.  I actually find it interesting that Tillinghast is sometimes criticized for his weak par 5's yet there are 3 of them on my list here.

[Tim_Weiman]

GeoffreyC:

Thanks for your comment on the book itself.

It doesn't sound like many people actually read it, remember it or think very much of it.

George Peper's Best 500 book obviously contains far more information.  It benefits from covering the entire world and far better photography.

But, I can't help feeling it lacks the charm of Jenkins book.  Would you agree?

Matt Ward:

I found the GD article you mentioned to be a very poor substitute for the original work done by Jenkins.

It was nice to see reference to Jenkin's now long forgotten work, but for me the GD article cheapened it by focusing on updating the list of holes rather than the writing that made the book (in my opinion) so pleasurable.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Geoffrey C,

Some repititive courses on your list.

Couldn't you have found it in your heart, mind and soul to include one from Boca Rio ?

A lot of strong holes to choose from !

[John_McMillan]

Tim,

I remember Jenkins' book.  Another I remember from the same era was one by Arnold Palmer (also, I believe, in conjunction with a TV series) which had Arnie playing 18 holes with 18 different top figures from golf, and giving some instruction / architecture commentary along the way.  

I saw a copy of Jenkins' book in the library a recently, and re-read it.  I'm struck now on how "period" it reads now - that the focus of golf architecture is 1 or 2 holes on a golf course.  I realize that it's a book of golf holes, but I still come away from the read with the impression that Cypress Point is all about the 16'th hole, with 15 others that are accidently placed nearby.  

[Don_Mahaffey]

I'll take Doak's challenge and name a few of my favorite holes. Having never played CP or PB, I don't have to name the obvious. My criteria is a little different also.

#6 Carnoustie- Hit it in Hogan's alley and knocked a 4-iron on the green for an easy 4.

#14 Old Course- Beat a driver (downwind) down the right side, starting it out over the stone wall and drawing it back, knocked a 5 iron over the green and got up and down.

#17 Prestwick- As I understand, one of only two original holes. 3-wood down the right side, blind 6-iron into sahara, up and down for par.

#7 Apache Stronghold- From the Stronghold tees, first drive lost right, second drive perfect, 7-iron to 20 ft., drained for bogey.

#17 L.A. North- Hit into ditch on right, pitch out, wedge to pin tucked way left over bunker, 10 footer for par.

I happen to think all these holes are great holes (some would argue my choice at Preswick), and it makes them even better when the memories are good. I just don't remember the doubles and triples as well.

[Tim_Weiman]

John McMillan:

I understand your point about Jenkin's decision to focus on a collection of holes rather than entire courses.  That's clearly a shortcoming, especially if the intent is to discuss "golf architecture".

However, my favorite passage from the book (about Pine Valley) may be an exception to what you suggest:

"Any man who has ever waggled a wedge with serious intent knows about Pine Valley.  He knows from books, articles, photographs, films and plain old locker-room conversation that this is the golf course with the largest sand traps and funniest footprints in the world.  He also knows that Pine Valley - just the sound of it can make you shank - has more trees, bushes, Scotch broom, poverty grass, hawthorn and mountain laurel lying around those traps, and in them, than any course ever devised. And finally, he knows that if he is ever fortunate enough to be invited to play there he probably will not be able to break 100, because Pine Valley is the science-fiction monster of golf courses.......Pine Valley is the most difficult course anywhere for the man who makes a lot of mistakes.  Almost every fairway landing area and every putting surface is an island of lawn surrounded by unraked sand through which footprints lead in and then out again......Pine Valley is the epitome of target golf, for each drive must reach the sanctity of a fairway island, and each approach must reach the green.  Fail and you tear up your score card and retire to the gin-rummy table for the afternoon."

"Period"? Maybe.  But, not bad in my book.

[BarnyF]

Which Quail Creek Course is #17 refered to in Dan Jenkins book.

[Mike@Kiawah]

Chris H.

Actually, the par-5 is No. 16 and the wind means everything on that hole.  When we were filming "Bagger Vance" here, I had the opportunity to play a number of rounds with Bruce McGill, the actor who played Walter Hagen in the movie (and played D-Day in "Animal House").  On one day, with a 20-25 mph wind in our face, he hit Driver, 3-wood, 3-iron to reach the green.  The following day, with the wind in the opposite direction at about 10 mph, he hit driver, 3-iron.  Wind means everything here on Kiawah.  BTW, he shot a 78 from the Blues with the 20-25 mph wind, all the while complaining that the "Walter Hagen Swing" was messing up his real game...

[GeoffreyC]

Pat

My list was really done in a hasty manner without all the thought it deserved.

I did include #1 at Boca Rio in my equally hasty list of par 5's I thought better r/r par 5's then #11 at Lehigh (#15 Boca Rio is probably the best of them at Boca Rio).  I also gave credit to the designers  

[Paul_Daley]

Great post Tim:

When Tom Doak referred to 2/3rds of the best holes being located overseas, I have an inkling that a couple were in Adelaide, Sydney or Melbourne.

[Chris_Hervochon]

Mike-
Thanks for reminding me!  An egregious error on my part.  I played in the IJGT event there, and the last day we played the Ocean Course, albeit from the whites (still a lot of fun and TOUGH).  Wind was blowing about 30 mph into us and it was like 40 degrees out.  I hit knockdown 3 iron down the left, then another down the left (big mistake) then I was forced to hit a low rope hook 4 iron off the ridgin in the fairway and run it on.  Was not successful, but had a lot of fun trying.  Never have I seen such interesting contours on a hole before.  Congratulations on a great hole Mike.

[Jeff Vaca]

After lurking on this site for several months now, I suppose this is as good an opportunity as any to post a reply.

I first read Jenkins' book when I was 14 (in 1974), and thought it was one of the greatest books I'd ever laid eyes on.  It did more than anything to increase my interest in golf, and in particular, golf courses.  At the time, Sports Illustrated also had a board game called "Go for the Green" which used map layouts of the 18 holes.  It was a silly dice game, but a lot of fun nonetheless.

To answer Tim's original questions, it certainly made me want to travel and see the holes he wrote about (though I've been less than successful in this regard), and I will have considered my life a success if I get to Prairie Dunes at some point before giving up the ghost.

I also recently checked the book out of our local library, and while it doesn't hold the magic for me it once did, Jenkins could (and can) write up a storm, and while certainly not in the class of Tom Doak's Confidential Guide or some others, it's still an enjoyable book.  

And thanks to all the contributors to this site who make regular viewing such an enjoyable experience, although it can be addictive.  I knew things might be getting out of hand when I was looking at Pisarro's painting "Chestnut Trees at Orly" the other day and my first thought was, wow - what great land for a golf course!

[Tim_Weiman]

Jeff:

Thanks for your comments.  Obviously, I think Jenkin's book was something of a landmark, but apparently it is not holding up so well today.  I guess Jenkin's writing, as good as it was, is not enough to interest people long term.

Then, too, any list of holes will probably fall out of favor quickly.  We now have so many lists of the "best" courses.

Will the Confidential guide hold up better?

I'll go out on a limb and say yes.  Partly because Tom be building golf courses for years to come and keep him fresh in our minds.

More than that, The Guide truly did break new ground by offering "criticism" of an art form previously free from such analysis.

Producing a new list of the best courses comes naturally for major publications.  Doing another book like The Guide wouldn't be so easy.

[Mike @ Kiawah]

Last time I'll plug the UBS Warburg Cup tournament, promise.  But, I thougth y'all might be interested in the lineup of players, including 8 almuni of the 1991 Ryder Cup returning!...

U.S. Team

Palmer, Arnold (Captain)
O’Meara, Mark
Nicklaus, Jack
Irwin, Hale
Strange, Curtis
Floyd, Raymond
Nelson, Larry
Watson, Tom
Calcavecchia, Mark
Roberts, Loren
Hoch, Scott
John Cook

International Team

Player, Gary (Captain) (South Africa)
Nobilo, Frank (New Zealand)
Aoki, Isao (Japan)
Torrance, Sam (Scotland)
Faldo, Nick (England)
Woosnam, Ian (Wales)
Langer, Bernhard (Germany)
Canizares, Jose Maria (Spain)
Ginn, Stuart (Australia)
TBA
TBA
TBA

Some interesting matchups (and rematchups) could be afoot...

[Tim_Weiman]

Mike:

What thread were you trying to post on?

[BillV]

Geoffrey Childs, PhD.

Nice to see that you came to your senses about your choices for #11.

As for the 500 holes Pepper book, it's very Golf Digest-y.

Lists such as these irritate me more than any other.  

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