[Anthony_Nysse]

Golfweek’s Best Golf Courses 2008
CLASSIC COURSES
1. Cypress Point Club (p)
Pebble Beach, Calif.
Alister MacKenzie, 1928

2. Pine Valley Golf Club (p)
Pine Valley, N.J.
George Crump and Harry S. Colt, 1919

3. Shinnecock Hills Golf Club (p)
Southampton, N.Y.
Charles Blair Macdonald and Seth Raynor, 1916; Howard C. Toomey and William S. Flynn, 1931

4. Pebble Beach Golf Links (r)
Pebble Beach, Calif.
Douglas Grant and Jack Neville, 1919

5. Merion Golf Club (East) (p)
Ardmore, Pa.
Hugh Wilson, 1912

6. Oakmont Country Club (p)
Oakmont, Pa.
Henry Fownes, 1903

7. National Golf Links of America (p)
Southampton, N.Y.
Charles Blair Macdonald, 1911

8. Crystal Downs Country Club (p)
Frankfort, Mich.
Alister MacKenzie and Perry Maxwell, 1931

9. Prairie Dunes Country Club (p)
Hutchinson, Kan.
Perry Maxwell, 1937; Press Maxwell, 1957

10. Augusta National Golf Club (p)
Augusta, Ga.
Robert (Bobby) Tyre Jones
and Alister MacKenzie, 1932

11. Pinehurst No. 2 (r) 8.71
Pinehurst, N.C.
Donald Ross, 1903-46

12. Fishers Island Golf Club (p)
Fishers Island, N.Y.
Seth Raynor, 1926

13. San Francisco Golf Club (p)
San Francisco
A.W. Tillinghast, 1915

14. Seminole Golf Club (p)
Juno Beach, Fla.
Donald Ross, 1929

15. Chicago Golf Club (p)
Wheaton, Ill.
Charles Blair Macdonald, 1894; Seth Raynor, 1923

16. Oakland Hills Country Club (South) (p)
Bloomfield Hills, Mich.
Donald Ross, 1918; Robert Trent Jones Sr., 1951

17. Winged Foot Golf Club (West) (p)
Mamaroneck, N.Y.
A.W. Tillinghast, 1923

18. Los Angeles Country Club (North) (p)
Los Angeles
Herbert Fowler, 1921; George C. Thomas Jr.
and William P. Bell, 1927

19. Garden City Golf Club (p)
Garden City, N.Y.
Devereux Emmet, 1899; Walter J. Travis, 1909

20. The Olympic Club (Lake) (p)
San Francisco
Willie Watson and Sam Whiting, 1929

21. The Country Club (Composite) (p)
Brookline, Mass.
Willie Campbell, 1895; Howard C. Toomey
and William S. Flynn, 1931

22. Bethpage State Park (Black) (d)
Farmingdale, N.Y.
A.W. Tillinghast, 1935

23. Southern Hills Country Club (p)
Tulsa, Okla.
Perry Maxwell, 1936

24. Riviera Country Club (p)
Pacific Palisades, Calif.
George C. Thomas Jr. and William P. Bell, 1927

25. Camargo Club (p)
Indian Hill, Ohio
Seth Raynor, 1921

26. Wannamoisett Country Club (p)
Rumford, R.I.
Donald Ross, 1916

27. Shoreacres Golf Club (p)
Lake Bluff, Ill.
Seth Raynor, 1921

28. Plainfield Country Club (p)
Plainfield, N.J.
Donald Ross, 1921

29. Somerset Hills Country Club (p)
Bernardsville, N.J.
A.W. Tillinghast, 1919

30. Oak Hill Country Club (East) (p)
Pittsford, N.Y.
Donald Ross, 1924; George and Tom Fazio, 1979

31. Pasatiempo Golf Club (d)
Santa Cruz, Calif.
Alister MacKenzie, 1929

32. Myopia Hunt Club (p)
Hamilton, Mass.
Herbert Leeds, 1896

33. Winged Foot Golf Club (East) (p)
Mamaroneck, N.Y.
A.W. Tillinghast, 1923

34. Peachtree Golf Club (p)
Atlanta
Bobby Jones and Robert Trent Jones Sr., 1948

35. Quaker Ridge Golf Club (p)
Scarsdale, N.Y.
A.W. Tillinghast, 1926

36. Inverness Club (p)
Toledo, Ohio
Donald Ross, 1919; George and Tom Fazio, 1979

37. Maidstone Club (p)
East Hampton, N.Y.
William H. Tucker, 1899; Willie Park Jr., 1925

38. Baltimore Country Club (East) (p)
Timonium, Md.
A.W. Tillinghast, 1926

39. Baltusrol Golf Club (Lower) (p)
Springfield, N.J.
A.W. Tillinghast, 1922

40. Yeamans Hall Club (p)
Charleston, S.C.
Seth Raynor, 1925

41. Valley Club of Montecito (p)
Santa Barbara, Calif.
Alister MacKenzie and Robert Hunter, 1928

42. Olympia Fields Country Club (North) (p)
Olympia Fields, Ill.
Willie Park Jr., 1922

43. Salem Country Club (p)
Peabody, Mass.
Donald Ross, 1925

44. The Course at Yale (p)
New Haven, Conn.
Charles Blair Macdonald and Seth Raynor, 1926

45. Homestead Resort (Cascades) (r)
Hot Springs, Va.
William S. Flynn, 1923

46. White Bear Yacht Club (p)
White Bear Lake, Minn.
Donald Ross, 1916

47. Newport Country Club (p)
Newport, R.I.
Donald Ross, 1915; A.W. Tillinghast, 1924

48. East Lake Golf Club (p)
Atlanta
Donald Ross, 1915; George Cobb, 1960;
Rees Jones, 1994

49. Scioto Country Club (p)
Columbus, Ohio
Donald Ross, 1916

50. Cherry Hills Country Club (p)
Englewood, Colo.
William S. Flynn, 1923

51. Interlachen Country Club (p)
Edina, Minn.
Willie Watson, 1911; Donald Ross, 1919

52. Piping Rock (p)
Locust Valley, N.Y.
Charles Blair Macdonald and Seth Raynor, 1913

53. Colonial Country Club (p)
Fort Worth, Texas
John Bredemus, 1935; Perry Maxwell, 1940

54. Holston Hills Country Club (p)
Knoxville, Tenn.
Donald Ross, 1928

55. Medinah Country Club (No. 3) (p)
Medinah, Ill.
T. Bendelow, 1928; R. Packward, 1986; Rees Jones, 2004

56. Country Club of Fairfield (p)
Fairfield, Conn.
Seth Raynor, 1914; A.W. Tillinghast, 1925

57. Milwaukee Country Club (p)
Milwaukee
Charles H. Alison and Harry S. Colt, 1929

58. Lawsonia Golf Club (Links) (d)
Green Lake, Wis.
William B. Langford and Theodore J. Moreau, 1929

59. Aronimink Golf Club (p)
Newtown Square, Pa.
Donald Ross, 1928

60. Fenway Golf Club (p)
Scarsdale, N.Y.
A.W. Tillinghast, 1924

61. Kittansett Club (p)
Marion, Mass.
Fred Hood, 1922

62. Essex County Club (p)
Manchester-by-the-Sea, Mass.
Donald Ross, 1917

63. Franklin Hills Country Club (p)
Franklin, Mich.
Donald Ross, 1926

64. Brookside Country Club (p)
Canton, Ohio
Donald Ross, 1922

65. NCR Country Club (South) (p)
Kettering, Ohio
Dick Wilson, 1954

66. Mountain Lake Club (p)
Lake Wales, Fla.
Seth Raynor, 1917

67. Pine Needles Country Club (r)
Southern Pines, N.C.
Donald Ross, 1927
68. Baltusrol Golf Club (Upper) (p)
Springfield, N.J.
A.W. Tillinghast, 1922

69. Huntingdon Valley Country Club (p)
Abingdon, Pa.
Howard C. Toomey and William S. Flynn, 1927

70. Congressional Country Club (Blue) (p)
Bethesda, Md.
Devereux Emmet, 1924; Donald Ross, 1930;
Robert Trent Jones Sr., 1959; Rees Jones, 1989

71. The Minikahda Club (p)
Minneapolis
Willie Watson, 1907; Donald Ross, 1917

72. Lancaster Country Club (p)
Lancaster, Pa.
William S. Flynn, 1930; David and William Gordon, 1959

73. Fox Chapel Golf Club (p)
Pittsburgh
Charles Banks and Seth Raynor, 1925

74. St. Louis Country Club (p)
St. Louis
Charles Blair Macdonald and Seth Raynor, 1914

75. Philadelphia Country Club (Spring Mill) (p)
Gladwyne, Pa.
Howard C. Toomey and William S. Flynn, 1927

76. Whippoorwill Country Club (p)
Armonk, N.Y.
Donald Ross, 1925; Charles Banks, 1929

77. Bel-Air Country Club (p)
Los Angeles
George C. Thomas Jr. and William P. Bell, 1927

78. Skokie Country Club (p)
Glencoe, Ill.
Tom Bendelow, 1904; Donald Ross, 1915;
William B. Langford and Theodore J. Moreau, 1938

79. Engineers Club (p)
Roslyn, N.Y.
Herbert Strong, 1918

80. Eastward Ho! (p)
Chatham, Mass.
Herbert Fowler, 1922

81. Lehigh Country Club (p)
Allentown, Pa.
Howard C. Toomey and William S. Flynn, 1928

82. Ekwanok Country Club (p)
Manchester, Vt.
Walter J. Travis and John Duncan Dunn, 1899

83. Hollywood Golf Club (p)
Deal, N.J.
Isaac Mackie, 1912; Walter J. Travis, 1917

84. Indianwood Country Club (Old) (p)
Lake Orion, Mich.
Wilfred Reid and William Connellan, 1928

85. Creek Club (p)
Locust Valley N.Y.
Charles Blair Macdonald and Seth Raynor, 1925

86. Old Town Club* (p)
Winston-Salem, N.C.
Perry Maxwell, 1939

87. Northland Country Club (p)
Duluth, Minn.
Donald Ross, 1927

88. Ridgewood Country Club (East/West) (p)
Paramus, N.J.
A.W. Tillinghast, 1929

89. Taconic Golf Club (p)
Williamstown, Mass.
Wayne Stiles and John Van Kleek, 1927

90. Champions Golf Club (Cypress Creek) (p)
Houston
Ralph Plummer, 1959

91. Beverly Country Club (p)
Chicago
Donald Ross, 1916

92. Brook Hollow Country Club (p)
Dallas
A.W. Tillinghast, 1921

93. Point O’Woods Country Club (p)
Benton Harbor, Mich.
Robert Trent Jones Sr., 1958

94. Dunes Golf & Beach Club (r)
Myrtle Beach, S.C.
Robert Trent Jones Sr., 1949

95. Augusta Country Club* (p)
Augusta, Ga.
Donald J. Ross, 1927

96. Rolling Green Golf Course (p)
Springfield, Pa.
Howard C. Toomey and William S. Flynn, 1926

97. Atlantic City Country Club (d)
Northfield, N.J.
William S. Flynn, 1923; Tom Doak, 2003

98. Canterbury Golf Club (p)
Beachwood, Ohio
Herbert Strong, 1922

99. Sunnehanna Country Club (p)
Johnstown, Pa.
A.W. Tillinghast, 1921

100. Westchester Country Club (West) (p)
Rye, N.Y.
Walter J. Travis, 1919

[Tom Huckaby]

Logic question:

A club has two courses.  Both are great.    Course A was built before 1960 and renovated a bit around 2000, but not changed substantially enough to be called modern.  Course B was also built before 1960, but in the early 2000s completely re-done, so that it is now called modern.

Course A and Course B are of equal quality overall; in fact Course A remains arguably superior to Course B.

Course A gets no recognition on these lists.  Course B is rated very highly on the modern list.

Conclusions?

Thus the example of Monterey Peninsula Country Club.

TH

[wsmorrison]

Thank you for taking the time to post the list, Anthony.

I would not debate the ranking itself, but would somebody at Golfweek please remove Howard C. Toomey as a designer partner of William Flynn in future lists?  He did not design nor was he associated with Flynn's design business.  Toomey was a partner of William Flynn in a construction business, Toomey and Flynn.  Toomey and Flynn was responsible for construction of most golf courses designed by William Flynn.  Toomey and Flynn also constructed Burning Tree GC, which was based on plans by Alison, and Westchester CC, which was designed by Travis. 

[JSlonis]

Pretty normal list...some longtime favorites of these type of lists ranked too high.

I say it every time I see one of these rankings without it being included, but...WHERE is Mountain Ridge CC(Ross/NJ)?  There is just no way this course should be listed outside of the top 100 Classical Courses in the US.

[Tom Huckaby]

Oh, and by the way, as an unashamed CA homer, I am loving that Cypress sits at the top, and Pebble destroys Oakmont.

Take that, George Pazin.

Way to go Golfweek!
 

[John Kavanaugh]

Pretty normal list...some longtime favorites of these type of lists ranked too high.

I say it every time I see one of these rankings without it being included, but...WHERE is Mountain Ridge CC(Ross/NJ)?  There is just no way this course should be listed outside of the top 100 Classical Courses in the US.

J,

Aren't there any Golfweek raters who are members of Mountain Ridge?  It can easily be proven that everytime a different course breaks onto the Classic list it is because of a push by a rater who is a member.  Remember the famous Lehigh spam scandal?  Just peruse the bottom of the list and several others should come to mind.

[Tommy Williamsen]

One of the more interesting things about the "Classic" list is the lack of courses built between 1930 and 1960.  If I counted correctly, there are only three: Point"o Woods, The Dunes, G&BC, and Champions.  I know it was some kind of black hole where few courses of note were built but what are some worthy contenders?

[Kalen Braley]

If I recall correctly from prior threads, the green fees for Lawsonia are very inexpensive.  Based on this and guessing that the vast majority of the rest of these courses are either private or high priced daily fees, does this make Lawsonia the best overall "value" course in America?

Just wondering...

[wsmorrison]

Tommy,

Add one more...Shinnecock, the redesign was completed in 1931.  Given that the only remnant of the Macdonald version of the course is the 7th tee and a few revised holes routed in the same general location, should he really be given any credit at all for today's design iteration?  No.  Macdonald should not be given any design credit at all.  Regarding the 1916 iteration, what evidence is there that Raynor had anything at all to do with the design?

[John Kavanaugh]

Why is Doak listed on Atlantic City and Fazio is not on ANGC?  Are so many guys going to be listed on Bandon IV that it will be the first pop up ranking list?

[JSlonis]

Pretty normal list...some longtime favorites of these type of lists ranked too high.

I say it every time I see one of these rankings without it being included, but...WHERE is Mountain Ridge CC(Ross/NJ)?  There is just no way this course should be listed outside of the top 100 Classical Courses in the US.

J,

Aren't there any Golfweek raters who are members of Mountain Ridge?  It can easily be proven that everytime a different course breaks onto the Classic list it is because of a push by a rater who is a member.  Remember the famous Lehigh spam scandal?  Just peruse the bottom of the list and several others should come to mind.

John,

I'm sure what you've said goes on, but Mountain Ridge is so good that it shouldn't need a Golfweek Rater/Member push.  It should already be solidly in the Top 100.

[John Kirk]

Crystal Downs and Prairie Dunes #8 and #9 are ahead of Augusta, Pinehurst, and Winged Foot (West) is an interesting long term trend.  Both Crystal and Prairie are small, hilly, and tricky.  They're very similar in many regards.

I like Riviera better than both LACC (North) and Garden City.  Riviera is too low, and there's too much negativity surrounding the renovation.

Is Mountain Lake that good (#66), or is it a clear Golfweek/GCA favorite?

[David Stamm]

One of the more interesting things about the "Classic" list is the lack of courses built between 1930 and 1960.  If I counted correctly, there are only three: Point"o Woods, The Dunes, G&BC, and Champions.  I know it was some kind of black hole where few courses of note were built but what are some worthy contenders?

Isn't Peachtree on there, Tommy?

[David Stamm]

  Riviera is too low, and there's too much negativity surrounding the renovation.

 

I agree on both counts, John.

[Sean Leary]

One of the more interesting things about the "Classic" list is the lack of courses built between 1930 and 1960.  If I counted correctly, there are only three: Point"o Woods, The Dunes, G&BC, and Champions.  I know it was some kind of black hole where few courses of note were built but what are some worthy contenders?

Prairie Dunes is on there as well..

[David Stamm]

....and Bethpage.

[PThomas]

One of the more interesting things about the "Classic" list is the lack of courses built between 1930 and 1960.  If I counted correctly, there are only three: Point"o Woods, The Dunes, G&BC, and Champions.  I know it was some kind of black hole where few courses of note were built but what are some worthy contenders?

Isn't Peachtree on there, Tommy?

yes it is!

[Jim Franklin]

I am surprised that Five Farms dropped in this ranking. Every GW rater I play with raves about the course (and I play with a lot of them) plus we have 4 or 5 GW guys at our club. How we drop is beyond me unless those guys just lie to me because I just hosted them. I don't know.

[wsmorrison]

Kittansett (61) is not a Fred Hood design.  It was designed by William Flynn with possible assistance from Hugh Wilson.  There is no evidence that Hood did anything more than oversee the construction of a project he and a committee put together.  That committee elected to hire Flynn to design the course.  There is enough archival evidence to prove this. 

Perhaps a greater effort needs to be made to make these attributions more accurate and systematic.  A systematic approach works better for attributions than it does for ranking the courses themselves.  Interesting and thought provoking, but not very meaningful.  In my opinion, the architectural attributions should be better presented.

[John Kavanaugh]

I am surprised that Five Farms dropped in this ranking. Every GW rater I play with raves about the course (and I play with a lot of them) plus we have 4 or 5 GW guys at our club. How we drop is beyond me unless those guys just lie to me because I just hosted them. I don't know.

Jim,

Didn't you guys just use a renovationalist that is not a Golfweek favorite?  Should have hired Hanse.

[John Kirk]

I am surprised that Five Farms dropped in this ranking. Every GW rater I play with raves about the course (and I play with a lot of them) plus we have 4 or 5 GW guys at our club. How we drop is beyond me unless those guys just lie to me because I just hosted them. I don't know.

Jim,

I doubt you could get a straight answer out of your guests, if in fact they were underwhelmed.  People handle criticism rather poorly, so most of the time people avoid sharing their true feelings.  People tend to avoid confrontation.

I like your course.  A lot.

Also, remember the difference between 25 and 65 on the list is very small.  You shifted down from great course to great course.  I'll give it 4 stars.

 

[HamiltonBHearst]

Posted by: Jim Franklin  Posted on: Today at 11:54:58 am  
Insert Quote  
I am surprised that Five Farms dropped in this ranking. Every GW rater I play with raves about the course (and I play with a lot of them) plus we have 4 or 5 GW guys at our club. How we drop is beyond me unless those guys just lie to me because I just hosted them. I don't know.

Maybe Jim it is just people being polite?  I do think it is a problem when Golfweek has four or five members at one club

[jkinney]

IMO Shinnecock should be #1. It gets better every year in every respect as a true test of golf.

[Peter_Herreid]

Posted by: Jim Franklin  Posted on: Today at 11:54:58 am  
Insert Quote  
I am surprised that Five Farms dropped in this ranking. Every GW rater I play with raves about the course (and I play with a lot of them) plus we have 4 or 5 GW guys at our club. How we drop is beyond me unless those guys just lie to me because I just hosted them. I don't know.

Maybe Jim it is just people being polite?  I do think it is a problem when Golfweek has four or five members at one club

Corey/HBH--

I'd be incline to think you're on to something, except that the opposite seems to be happening wrt Mountain Lake...

[wsmorrison]

jkinney,

It is my favorite course in America.  Have you noticed the ongoing green expansions back as far as possible to their original dimensions?   If so, would you please share your thoughts?

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