[Jeff Fortson]

JakaB,

I never once mentioned or advocated that anyone take lessons.  Do a better job of reading.  If anything, I advocated that people spend more time honing their craft by practicing.  If lessons were to be apart of that equation then great.

The point in my posts is to question whether or not people think that technologically advanced equipment make them better golfers.  My feeling is that they don't.  

Many are still missing my point.  This isn't about whether you should work on your game to qualify for the mid-am or some other USGA event.  This is about my belief that we are all missing out on the real essence of the game..... getting in tune with your surroundings and skills by using them to enjoy the thrills and humbling experiences involved with playing golf.

I guess we all have different opinions about what golf means to us individually, but I like to think that golf is more than how low of a score you shoot or how long and straight you drive it.

If you do choose to try to qualify for a USGA event then I wish you the best of luck.  I will be at local qualifying for the US Open again this year as I will continue to do until I'm 50 years old.


Jeff F.

[TEPaul]

Jeff F:

That's a nice post you wrote--I like everything about it. But you've got to admit golf is a many faceted thing. There're all kinds of things we treasure and remember about it--great shots, great times, great wins, tough losses, great instances for whatever reason but at the end of our lives and careers we'll never forget that golf is basically about the golf course and what the game with us really is about--how well we can shoot on a course. When it's all said and done the best scores we've ever shot are always going to be right up there near the top of our memory banks! In the end--that's golf!

[Jeff Fortson]

TEPaul,

As someone that plays golf for part of my income I certainly understand the importance of score and its impact on one's experience.  

All I am saying is that score doesn't always define a "good golfer".  Sure it defines a "good player" but my message isn't about scores and becoming a "good player".  Equipment won't really make you a better golfer or player, as you even said that you feel 99% of the golfers out there gain nothing from these new gadgets.

However, a pursuit of personal excellence by learning new skills and honing one's strength can provide real improvement that lasts.  It not only makes you a "better player" but a "better golfer" as well.  The reason is that if you go out and buy a "hot" new driver and ball, and start hitting it 30 yards further, you really have achieved nothing as a "golfer".  I don't see anything but temporary personal gratification from it.  

"Golfing" and "playing" are different to me.  It's like "hunting" and "shooting".  It's when you combine the two together that you get real, long term results and satisfaction.


Jeff F.

[JakaB]

Jeff,

Do you feel like you cheated yourself bringing that utility long iron into play at Pajaro....does no longer hitting a blade one or two iron hurt your enjoyment of the game and thus your image of yourself....I personally love the successful shape of a long iron into the wind..but I can only do it with the modern utility type club...do you really think my life would be better off if I put my old laminated 4 wood back in the bag and gave up on the modern 4 iron....you need to lead by example my friend if you are going to sell a load of crap and not come out smelling like your wares...

[Andy Hughes]

However, a pursuit of personal excellence by learning new skills and honing one's strength can provide real improvement that lasts.  It not only makes you a "better player" but a "better golfer" as well.  The reason is that if you go out and buy a "hot" new driver and ball, and start hitting it 30 yards further, you really have achieved nothing as a "golfer".  I don't see anything but temporary personal gratification from it.

Jeff
I'm not sure I truly believe that statement. If we are striving to improve, then finding the clubs that are best suited to us is part of that effort, as is practicing and improving our skills. And unless you're still playing with your 1968 Wilson Staffs, you agree too

[Andy Hodson]

Jeff
It has taken now 29 posts for me to "get" what you are saying. The tone of post #1 set me off a little but lets see if I now get where you're coming from:

Invest more of yourself in the game (vs. more of your dollars) and you will be a better golfer, and thus, better for the game (ask not what the OEMs can do for you, but what you can do for the game).

Maybe?

(But I can guarantee you I'm looking to take the best equipment I can into my Section events this year. There is a damn good reason my three wood swims with fishes. It was old technology and sucked for that very reason.)

[Jeff Fortson]

JakaB,

I'll try to respond.

You said...

"Do you feel like you cheated yourself bringing that utility long iron into play at Pajaro"

No.  Why should I be held to a different set of rules that do not currently exist?  I would gladly get rid of it for a steak knife (1-iron) if the rules were to change.


You said...

"does no longer hitting a blade one or two iron hurt your enjoyment of the game and thus your image of yourself"

No.  Because I have put in the hours, days and years to honing my skills and becoming as good as I can possibly be, regardless of what equipment I use.  I only upgrade my equipment because the advantage gained by my peers is too great for me to ignore and give up.


You said...

"do you really think my life would be better off if I put my old laminated 4 wood back in the bag and gave up on the modern 4 iron"

That's not for me to answer.  Only you can answer that.  I do believe that golf would be better off if the ball were rolled back at least 5 years.  I know I would enjoy golf more if my MacGregor Eye-O-Matic 4-wood was at the upper tier of equipment allowed.


You said...

"you need to lead by example my friend if you are going to sell a load of crap and not come out smelling like your wares"

I do lead by example.  

I advocate what I think is the proper route for returning golf to where I think it should be on a daily basis.  

I give 100's of hours a year to junior golf for no pay.  

I am very involved in programs teaching inner-city children about golf that could not have an opportunity to try it if it weren't for the programs I am involved in.  

I have worked at a wide range of golf tournaments from junior golf to major championships, gratis.  

I donate dozens of golf clubs a year to programs dedicated to helping poor children play golf.  

I spend many afternoons playing golf with junior golfers to help them learn how to act and play for nothing other than the pleasure of watching kids get the golf bug.  

I have dedicated my PROFESSIONAL LIFE to making golf better.  

So John, what have you done for golf?  Or better yet, what are you currenty doing to make golf better?  

Paying dues at the private clubs you are a member at don't count as "contributing to golf".  Buying your $500 driver for retail from your pro doesn't count either.


Jeff F.

[Jeff Fortson]

ahughes584,

You said...

Jeff
I'm not sure I truly believe that statement. If we are striving to improve, then finding the clubs that are best suited to us is part of that effort, as is practicing and improving our skills. And unless you're still playing with your 1968 Wilson Staffs, you agree too  "

I never advocated that one shouldn't look for equipment that best suits their game.  I am advocating that people should look to improve through pouring their soul (soul as it relates to golf) into their practice.  I am not in favor of people in search of something that is unattainable through their purchasing power.

Sorry if I wasn't more clear about it.


Andy Hodson,

You said,

"Invest more of yourself in the game (vs. more of your dollars) and you will be a better golfer, and thus, better for the game (ask not what the OEMs can do for you, but what you can do for the game).

Maybe?

(But I can guarantee you I'm looking to take the best equipment I can into my Section events this year. There is a damn good reason my three wood swims with fishes. It was old technology and sucked for that very reason.)"

You're extremely close in your summation of my opinions.

As for you taking the best equipment to your section events.  I don't blame you or admonish you for it.  As long as you are playing by the rules I have no problem with any equipment you choose to play with.

I think the old technology made golf more of a sport and less of a game.  I think wooden woods were much better at identifying the better ball strikers and players.  You couldn't get away with missing a shot in the past.  Now, you can hit it high on the toe and it finds the fairway 280 yards away.


Jeff F.

[JakaB]

So John, what have you done for golf?  Or better yet, what are you currenty doing to make golf better?  

I have always wanted a thread about what have you done for golf lately...and since you ask....I singlehandedly have gotten the championship flight of the Lawrence County Country Club to start playing the ball down and by the USGA rules as we best know them.   This is creeping throughout the rest of the club and can be seen on close to a daily basis.  It may not surprise you that people not only love to beat me they love to see me getting beat...so through a five year boycot based on coming back when the rules would be observed and by joining an away club that does play by the rules....my friends and foes have come around...and in their own way they thank me for it....I paid back the favor by returning to the Club Championship this year and shooting a classic 71, 81 to everyones delight....had the lead after 24 holes and went bogey, bogey, bogey, par, bogey, double, double to find my comfort zone back in the pack.   I didn't want to play in that tournament because I hate keeping score...they knew this and fished me back by calling my threat...The truth is I did this all for me but others got helped along the way and the game in my little world is better for it.

[TEPaul]

Barney:

Your mission in life is to be golf's doormat and wiping boy and the wonderful thing is you seem to know that so well!

You have that wonderful aura about you of those who have faced a firing squad together--but thankfully you lived on to tell us about it!

[Doug Siebert]

The dark little secret is that for probably 99% of the world's golfers it's impossible to buy an improved game in the pro shop! And that includes to a fairly large degree distance increase today. The sharp distance increase today is only within a small band of very talented golfers! The reality is that the dynamics of the golf swing itself and basically the general player's capability (including inconsistency) regarding same will always prevent real benefit to them!

It is possible, but they are one time only improvements.  The biggest IMHO was 200cc to 400cc heads.  May not help their square hits all that much but they don't hit it square very often anyway.  Sure helps with the off center hits though!  Balls that curve less, clubs that are more forgiving help the poorer players, even if they aren't getting the same zing from the Pro V1x that I do.

But if you are talking about the "hot club of the year" phenomena, rather than technological improvements in general, then I agree.  There's no reason why this year's Nike driver is going to be any better for the average golfer than last year's, but I suppose a lot of people will be fooled into thinking that's the case (or so Nike hopes, though they'll have a hard time convincing 100 shooters it will help them when even Tiger can't hit the thing )

[Andy Hughes]

I never advocated that one shouldn't look for equipment that best suits their game.  I am advocating that people should look to improve through pouring their soul (soul as it relates to golf) into their practice.  I am not in favor of people in search of something that is unattainable through their purchasing power.

A part of me happens to agree with you; I spent a lot of time when I was younger learning how to play and hit different shots. There is and was no equipment I could buy that would be a substitute for that. I think that is what you are getting at? But I consider that only a part of the process, and just as I was practicing years ago, I was also looking to find the best irons and woods and putter I could.  
You also said:

I know I would enjoy golf more if my MacGregor Eye-O-Matic 4-wood was at the upper tier of equipment allowed.

and I am not sure how to square that with your prior comments unless your enjoyment in golf is measured by how well you do against other people rather than in just the playing of the game and the joy (or sorrow!) of your own game. If a well struck shot off your old Eye-O-Matic brought you the most joy, why would you not play it now?
But I may be misunderstanding your point, and as I gather you play the game for a living, perhaps it would not be beneficial for your wallet!  

[Jeff Fortson]

Bringing this back up because I just read an interesting article in the NY Times about Hogan's Secret.


Check this quote out....

"But in addition to the secret, Jody Vasquez remembers Ben Hogan's basic advice for any golfer wanting to improve: "Go hit 10,000 balls." So maybe the secret really is in the dirt."

Guess, I'm not too far off in my beliefs after all!  

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/02/sports/golf/02ANDE.html?8hpib

Jeff F.

[Mike Benham]

Bringing this back up because I just read an interesting article in the NY Times about Hogan's Secret.


Check this quote out....

"But in addition to the secret, Jody Vasquez remembers Ben Hogan's basic advice for any golfer wanting to improve: "Go hit 10,000 balls." So maybe the secret really is in the dirt."

Guess, I'm not too far off in my beliefs after all!  

Jeff F.

Hogan also said that "for every day of practice that you miss, it takes two days of practice to make up for it ..."

Mike

[ForkaB]

Hogan also said that "for every day of practice that you miss, it takes two days of practice to make up for it ..."

Mike

Mike this is truly depressing.  I have endured roughly 17,000 days since I learned to play golf and have probably practiced on less than 100 of those days.  By Ben's count, I am now well over 33,000 days in the hole, and falling in deeper every day.  It's not that I can't play--I can, and actually have gotten "better" over the past few years.  But, how bloody good could I have been if I'd given up wine, women and song over the past 4-5 decades?  And, do I really care?

The mind boggles.

[Andy Hughes]

"But in addition to the secret, Jody Vasquez remembers Ben Hogan's basic advice for any golfer wanting to improve: "Go hit 10,000 balls." So maybe the secret really is in the dirt."
Guess, I'm not too far off in my beliefs after all!

Yeah, but hit those 10,000 balls with the very best equipment you can find!!  

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