[Ran Morrissett]

This post follows from a negative review of Ashdown Forest under the post "Who agrees this would be fun?"I am a fan of this completely natural course and can make allowance for holes like the 4th. Others obviously feel different and I would be curious to better understand the negative sentiments.

[peter_p]

My comment on Royal Ashdown Forest was probably due to expectations set too high. The first five or six holes were short (332, 384, 334, 356, 512, 128 and I  hit wedge or 9 iron on most of them. I was playing with a long time member who was of great assistance in pointing out nuances. Six was a great little par three. The holes at top of the hill and the back nine were much superior to the front.  I guess for me the bottom line is that, even looking at the yardage book I can only remember about six holes, 1, 6, 7, 11, 15, 18. Plus just finding the darn course washard. Maybe it was just the sequence in the middle of  Sunningdale (Old & New), Woking, Chart Hill, Royal St George, Rye.  

[Ran Morrissett]

What a neat selection of courses to play. What are your thoughts on Woking? Do you agree in general with our write-up on it or what would you add/delete? Also, what is the story with Chart Hills? You are the first person I've met who has played it. It certainly photographs well but I cannot tell if the course seems perhaps manufactured?Cheers,

[Ran Morrissett]

I see your point on the front nine at Ashdown Forest - there would indeed be a bunch of nine iron shots to be had. My experience was different in that I play most of the courses around London in December/January trying to get to/from the States. With less roll, the inland courses stretch out quite a bit. I recall hitting a good drive on the second hole and still having a six iron left (which really is more like how the course should play).Also, I am surprised that the 17th isn't one you recall; I remember thinking it was the equivalent of the 10th or 12th at Sunningdale  (Old) - a huge par four over interesting ground.I found Woking to be an excellent winter course as well.

[peter_p]

I thoroughly enjoyed Woking and your review is spot on. I arrived early because its realllllly hard to find. It was all that I expected, good green contours and surrounds. Most shots require planning and precision. If I go back to London it will be a course I replay.Chart Hills. Superb modern course, most Americans would really feel at home. Requires all 14 clubs. Island green 17th. Good redan hole at #3. Good blend of strength and finesse. Two plaques in 1st fairway where Faldo hit opening drive around the corner flirting with bunker. When told he couldn't do it again, he rehit. The plaques are 8 feet apart and my  drive from a closer tee was between them. Would rather watch a Ryder Cup at this course rather than the Belfry. Bunkering very good and deceiving at times, but 8 was totally bunkerless. Water in play on 9 holes. Learned I'm going to have to write down hole-by-holes that day or I won't be able to provide accurate reviews.

[Ran Morrissett]

I wonder if it is an overstatement to say that Skibo and Chart Hills are the only two courses built in the past 45 years in the UK that are worth playing? Maybe Craigshead, Hanse's new course near Crail, should be included as well but would that be it?

[Rollo Podmarsh]

As a UK resident and a poor old chap who plays Colonel Bogey to tears at times, I stumbled upon this dear old thread..

I wonder, have any of you seen Kyle Phillips' THE GROVE...and is this a UK course built in the last 45 years worth seeing?

[Paul_Turner]

Woburn is worth seeing.

R.A.F:  I love holes 1,2,5,6,7,8,10,11,12,14,16,17.  That's a lot!

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I suspect there will be more and more of these old courses that simply are not long enough for today's powerful players.  Even with modern clubs and balls I only hit about as far as I did in the 60s which means I get any number of mid-iron (or even longer) approaches on holes under 400 yards in length and anything over 440 yards is probably out of range of two shots except, very occasionally, at the seaside.  I can still find Royal Ashdown and their kind utterly enchanting.  

[Marc Haring]

Rollo, perhaps you should actually call yourself "the oldest member". I would love to know a bit more about The Grove as I intend to play it some time this year.
Interesting concept. No members apparently, just corporate golf etc. £18M for the course I was told.

Paul. I assume you were referring to the Marquis at Woburn as I believe all have been built within the last 45 years. I loved it when I played it. Tree lined but a bit of space, strategic, delightful swales around the greens although they were stimping at about 4 when we played it in March last year.

Love Woking. I think I posted a review in the GCA feature, which Rollo may be interested in, given his P.G Woodhouse connection.
 
To get back to the thread, I did like Royal Ashdown Forest when I played it but we are talking 15 years ago. Couldn't believe the heather, it was even growing on the fairways. But to be honest,  can't recall too many holes. Still for a course without bunkers it was good.

Other newish courses in the UK? Surely Kingsbarn.  

[Rollo Podmarsh]

Marc,

Very good on the Oldest member..

RAF has cut down a ton of heather since you were there..Still good fun though and as Marc Rowlinson said a place of enchantment.

I was curious on the Grove, the press seems to love Kyle Phillips. On my last trip North to K-Barns, I found the course very much overrated given its press.

[Marc Haring]

Without wishing to be too cynical, has the press been offered the odd freebie?

[Paul_Turner]

MH

No actually I was referring to The Dukes course at Woburn.  I played there a lot as a lad.

I actually think that the Dukes, Duchess and Marquess are all about the same quality.  The Dukes and Duchess are much more old style, lay of the land, type courses.  The Marquess more shaped and modern: I disliked the water feature 12th...but this was forced on the architect by the owners.

The Dukes is probably the best because the natural terrain on holes like the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 13th are more exciting and beautiful than anything on the Marquess which is now touted as the best.  The Duchess is beautiful and has an air of tranquility...I really like holes 3, 11!, 12.

I liked the alternative fairway option on the 7th Marquess, I think it worked, but I've only played it once.

[Paul_Turner]

One aspect that I'm sure is still present at RAF:

Some scary forced carries from the back tees.  Over all kinds of crap!

[James Edwards]

Ran, Pete,

I am a member at Chart Hills and have been for 8 years.  I live close by.

I'm glad you enjoyed the course Pete, your explanation of the holes are sound and accurate.  Please contact me when you are around again, especially if you are here in the summer when the course really shows it's true cahracter.

Would you believe that the course only has 6 full time greens staff?  Impressive eh....

Ran,  

The course has always had this label of being manufactured..  It is, but a great example of what can be achieved by a little attention to detail which clearly Steve Smyers and Nick Faldo introduced to the project in abundance.

Long Par 5's, Short Par 5's, Strategic all of them.  Wonderful short par 4 (6th) and long par 4s (2nd, 15th) - great selection of 3's (3rd,7th,11th, and 17th) all varying lengths and characters.  Ponds, streams, wetlands, natural habitats for golfers to observe.  Loads of bunkers both visual and aesthetic.  Fantastic finishing 3 holes, island green 17th, long par 4 18th.

I'd be happy to host any GCA members who happen to be in the vicinity..

James

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