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b.williams

cross bunkers
« on: November 10, 1999, 07:00:00 PM »
i enjoy old fashioned courses with death or glory shots - provided they aren't over water. i like 7 at pine valley even though there is only one way to play it. garden city, myopia, etc are further examples. all this talk on strategic this and that, do cross bunkers still have a place? if not, something good has been lost.
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Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
cross bunkers
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 1999, 07:00:00 PM »
This age of political correctness has killed the cross bunker and some needed (and appealing) variety has been lost with it.
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JohnV

cross bunkers
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 1999, 07:00:00 PM »
Yes, we had one at Pumpkin Ridge until the USGA came and told us to take it away.  I'd like to blame it on John, but he hasn't been there yet.
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George Blunt

  • Karma: +0/-0
cross bunkers
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 1999, 07:00:00 PM »
The cross bunker is alive and well at Royal Sydney (australia)Using a slightly liberal interpretation, i.e sand in the middle of the fairway, 5 holes could be said to have a cross bunker.  All the holes provide an alternative option to a heroic carry, but the shortest way to your target offering the best result will fly the sand.  In fairness once you have played the course a few times you don't really notice the cross bunkers as you will only end up in them with a poorly executed or thought out shot, but nevertheless they are there!!Sandman
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Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
cross bunkers
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 1999, 07:00:00 PM »
John V. :I would still opt to blame John.George B.Great point. Holes like 9 are the best on the course, SO WHY THE HECK AREN'T THERE MORE ELSEWHERE AROUND THE WORLD?
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DBE

  • Karma: +0/-0
cross bunkers
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 1999, 07:00:00 PM »
Seminole has great cross bunkering on #'s 7 and 18.  Ross also designed these on some shots at Salem and Mountain Ridge.  Somerset Hills and SFGC (Tillinghast) has a few.  I don't remember any at either Black Forest or Lost Dunes but Tom Doak, is there any?
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GeoffreyC

cross bunkers
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 1999, 07:00:00 PM »
There is a great cross bunker on the par 5 #4 at Bethpage Black.  It is perhaps the best 5 that Tillinghast designed.  It creates a blind uphill 2nd shot that is not very difficult if the drive is in the fairway but if you put the tee ball in the rough, you can't get over it.  This creates a difficult blind third shot of over 160 yards. It is also a beautiful hole with striking visual effects from the tee and for the 2nd shot.  The USGA obviously didn't object to this bunker.
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David Staebler

cross bunkers
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 1999, 07:00:00 PM »
Philadelphia Cricket Club (Tillinghast) has diminished but still preserved its fairway cross bunkering on holes 7 and 13.  Holes 3, 4, 5, 6, 10 and 14 have green front cross bunkers.I find it curious that modern courses routinely incorporate forced carries over water and wetlands where lost balls and penalty strokes are common while taking the view that cross bunkering is too severe.  Maybe it's because you never have to rake a lake.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
cross bunkers
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 1999, 07:00:00 PM »
David,I have done a few cross bunkers, probably just because both Pete Dye and Tom Fazio have told me I should avoid them.Black Forest has a line of cross bunkers across the second shot at the 7th hole [although they were no big carry for you, at 350 yards from the tee].  Usually, though, I provide a bit of room around.  On the 14th, the bunker on the right of the approach must be carried if you're going for the green, but there is fairway to the left of it.  And on the 16th, you can play around the big fairway bunker on the right, but you have to go so far left that you can't reach the green with your second shot.Lost Dunes doesn't have any true cross bunkers, although good players are going to have to carry across the bunkers on the approach to the 4th.One of these days I'll do a project with a bunch of them, just for fun -- but it would take the right client.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
cross bunkers
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 1999, 07:00:00 PM »
P.S. to Ran -- You're exactly right about political correctness, but the part of it which has really killed the cross bunker is the trend to five sets of tees [or more]!When you've got five sets of tees 150 yards apart, it's pretty hard to find a spot for a cross bunker which won't force someone to lay up from the tee -- and nobody likes being forced to lay up.
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Tom_Egan

cross bunkers
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 1999, 07:00:00 PM »
There are a few cross bunkers at Baltusrol, some of which may require a liberal interpretation.  Upper #'s 4, 6, 11, 14.  Lower #'s 2, 14, 17.
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Scott Kraus

cross bunkers
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 1999, 07:00:00 PM »
to Mr. Doak:Why don't you a course that is a complete throughback to the old days (cross bunkers, 90 degree corners on the greens, etc.)? It might sound artificial but it would be both for for you and the golfers.
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