[Ran Morrissett]

With all the talk about how good the 1st at Garden City is, can people think of other starting holes they like even better?I would nominate another shorty and its even still on Long Island - the 1st at National Golf Links of America. Talk about a green!! It makes some at Crystal Downs look flat.John M. once wrote an article suggesting the 1st at Mid-Ocean was the ideal starting hole.Other candidates?

[Ted_Sturges]

I agree with J. Morrissett that the 1st at Mid Ocean is a fabulous opening hole.

[T. Doak]

Got in here to suggest the first at Mid Ocean and found it twice already!I think I'm on the record with some of my other favorites, including National and Long Cove.  Machrihanish still takes the prize, though.

[TEPaul]

I've always liked shortish to very short "get into the round" opening holes. My picks, Merion, Philly Country, Torresdale Frankford, Huntingdon Valley come to mind. Now that we've been on the subject of the club in other posts, who can deny the greatness of PVGC's 1st. There is nothing like being in or watching a large playoff there, or going overtime. What a hole. If you ever go deep into that green you're either real good, you've misclubbed or you're crazy. Most people talk about the 13th, but if the 1st isn't as good, it's real close.

[Ran Morrissett]

Torresdale Frankford??? Please help us with that one - it sounds like a course named after a porno star.

[TEPaul]

Torresdale Frankford G.C. Your right, the club was named after a showgirl mistress Ross used to keep when he visited his Wynnewood office. One of five courses in Philly built by Ross.       The club is inside the Philly city limits and talk about out of land! Known for their wide variety of holes and their superfast greens. Maybe I'm the only one who likes their 1st. I just tend to like short interesting starting holes where I can hit a long iron (I've never popped up a long iron). You can't hit a driver anyway because the fairway ends in a creek and not only hitting  the incredibly canting green but putting it in the right spot is an absolute must. After driving over a hillock down into the semi-blind fairway most people do a little hop until the ball eventually appears; its funny!

[DBE]

I think that a great first hole should be a relatively easy par four. It gets play moving and if a great second shot is played a birdie can be made.  Some examples:  Merion East, Seminole, Pinehurst #2, Lost Dunes, Mountain Ridge, Pebble Beach, Garden City, Piping Rock, Charlotte Country Club, the Medalist, the Golf Club, Teeth of the Dog, Inverness, Cherry Hills (from the "Palmer" tee), Myopia Hunt and I hate to admit it, Congressional.  I've left off National because I think the green is too severe--too many chip shots that miss the green and four putts that delay the following group(s) from teeing off.  The first at Pine Valley is a very good hole, but like most of the courses the USGA plays its Open on, they're just too tough a start for my liking.  Baltusrol, Oakmont, Southern Hills, Oak Hill, etc.

[T. Doak]

I guess I'm from the opposite school.  I don't go to the first tee thinking about 18 pars, so I don't mind a tough starter that gets guys like David off-kilter; although, Lost Dunes starts with the kind of short par-4 he likes.My worry with the short par-4 starter is that most good short par-4's will make for a very difficult second shot off a poor tee shot, and it's tough to ask the average player to hit a good tee shot right out of the blocks, with any club.  For example, if you push the opening tee shot at Merion, you're dead.  Garden City is in a different category because the goal is to make three, not four.  I also like the first at Pinehurst No. 2 because it does give you a lot of room.

[DBE]

The first at Merion has the widest fairway on the course.  I don't want driveable greens just a comfortable something less than a driver tee shot and a short iron approach.  I'll settle for Merion or Lost Dunes.  Prairie Dunes, Crystal Downs, Cypress Point, Augusta Nat'l, etc. are not my favorite starts because the tee shot for me must be a driver and it must be long and straight--something difficult for me when I've flown or driven for three hours to play these places. The first at Mid Ocean is ok but the times I've played it you must calculate alot to get the tee shot on the top of the hill.  Just give me a no brainer--I don't want that much to think about that early in a round.

[GCT Jr.]

How come no one mentioned my first at Riviera? Elevated tee. Generous fairway (when not pinched down to twenty yards by a birdie-sensitive governing body). Excellent birdie opportunity before a tough stretch of fours and a long one-shotter. And most of all, sets the tone for the round. You feel a need to make a good score here no matter what your skill level, and when you don't, it changes your approach to the upcoming holes. Few holes play so many mental tricks so subtly. Also, it gets golfers away quickly, which short fours and even long fours just don't seem to do on a first hole.

[DBE]

Dear Mr. Thomas,With all due respect sir, whenever a tournament involving expert players is at Riviera (able to reach the first green in two strokes) there are delays with starting groups on time. Your comments on the rest of the course are accurate.  How is the rose gardening going?

[GCT Jr.]

Mr. Eger,My roses are excellent. Have quite a few new hybridizations that are looking splendid. Rose growing conditions up here are much better than Beverly Hills. Thank you for asking.Your comment is correct about the first at Riviera backing up for the championship events. Though I hardly think it is a major back up because the quality of play is such that mostly birdies and eagles are being made. It is an issue nonetheless. However, I design my courses to be enjoyed 52 weeks a year and primarily by all the players at the club, and if those Touring professional have to wait for the green to clear for four days of tournament play, I won't be losing any sleep.  In fact, the time they have to stand around and think is good for them. Of course, my beloved short three-shot first will likely be changed to a two-shotter for any future USGA events at the club (should the USGA be so bold), as the three-shotter and the dreaded birdie are discouraged by your former colleagues. Addressing the ball issue is also apparently discouraged back at Far Hills. Warm rosey regards,GCT, Jr.

[Gib_Papazian]

My vote (after Mid Ocean)for a stellar opening goes to Spyglass Hill in the hard but great category. Tough to argue with Garden City or NGLA though. . .    By contrast, has anyone ever noticed how many mediocre or downright awful opening holes there are on some of the world's most revered courses?My all-mediocre team:North Berwick,Ballybunnion,Pebble BeachPrestwick, Troon, Cherry Hills, Hoylake, Mauna Kea, the list goes on. . . any more nominations?  

[Bob Ellington]

Seminole and Turnberry both start with a clunkers, so I see your point. Actually, though, I must confess to being a fan of Prestwick's opener - it is the perfect start for THAT course.

[TEPaul]

Bob;     I wouldn't call the opener at Seminole a clunker. "Get into the round" or subtle maybe but definitely not a clunker. It is generally down the prevailing wind and it is always a little hard to figure where to aim your drive as you can get off the fairway either side quite easily with that fairway bunker obscuring the landing area. The green is long for a short hole and is hard to figure the distance. The most subtle part of the hole falls into the thinking of GCT Jr's logic about Riviera, if you think you should have made a birdie or you make a bogie by  a mistake it makes you press right off the bat, maybe too much on the 3rd.

[DBE]

Dear GCT, Jr.,So glad to hear that your roses are doing fine.  I prefer a par four to start....just a personal preference for my own reasons.  I happen to like Riviera's first, particularly with the next four holes.  Ever notice that Bel Air and LA North start with three shoters?  I do like Whitemarsh Valley's first, probably considered a clunker by some, but geez, let me start my round without having to play the best shot(s) of the day without having to wait to play them.

[GCT Jr.]

I'm so glad you like the first at Whitemarsh. The club is doing it's absolute best to ruin my work there, so I have stayed away. The first at Los Angeles has held up well over the years, but my first at Bel-Air, which was the fastest getaway hole of them all, now has a creek, cheap pines and bunkers on the outside of the dogleg to make it the slowest starting three-shotter in golf. Some gentleman named Fazio has overseen this lovely work.Cheerio,GCT Jr.PS - you should have seen my first at La Cumbre. That was the best of them all. And a par-4, as you like.

[Brad Klein]

Anyone notice how all of Pete's courses begin with simple, modest par-4s. Most of Ross' do, too, and while he routed his short-4s uphill, he'll make an exception on the opening hole for that and run it downhill (Worcester, Wampanoag, Brae Burn, Metacomet, Sagamore).Nobody yet mentioned Old Course at St. Andrews - perhaps because the magic there is the setting, not the hole.Worst opening holes: Secession, Pebble Beach, Blackwolf Run-River, Atlantic (ugh), Galloway National.    

[Ran Morrissett]

Blackwolf River as a bad opener? I assume you are saying the hole is a bad opener as opposed to just a bad hole? Any first hole where you can readily lose your tee shot is a bummer (see Secessions) and the 1st at Blackwolf qualifies under that count.However, as a 5th or 9th or whatever hole, I think it is a fine three shotter.Brad, do you agree or disagree?

[Ted_Sturges]

I just thought of another great opening hole.  How about the 1st at Southern Pines.  I think it's such a fine opening hole, down the hill and under 400 yards.  Mr. Ross did a nice job with this one.  Ran, agree?

[David Staebler]

A good friend with whom I played Royal West Norfolk (Brancaster) this past spring makes a good case for their opener being an ideal 1st hole.  Its length is under 400 yards with the tee and the green ridged against a row of sand hills running the full length of the hole down the left side.  The fairway is extremely wide.  (It blends into the 18th fairway which it parallels.)  The farther right you aim from the tee the longer the hole plays but the farther the ball will be from the danger of the sand hills.  I aimed right and hit a push leaving me a 4 iron in.  I can imagine taking an agressive line from the tee in favorable conditions and reaching the green with less than a driver and some kind of a wedge shot.

[JohnV]

I'm really surprised that nobody has mentioned the 1st hole at Royal County Down yet.  As your review states, it has been voted one of the 3 best opening holes in golf.  And while we're on the subject of Northern Ireland, I also liked the first hole at Portstewart.  It is a 400 yard par 4 from an elevated tee down into a valley, slightly doglegging right.  The dunes that make up the front 9 are all there right in front of you and the ocean is off to the right.  A beautiful and challanging start to the day.Machrinhanish is also spectactular as John noted.I like the first hole at Witch Hollow for a reasonable length par 4.  It is about 390 with 3 bunkers that edge out from the right to make the user of a driver be more precise.  The fairway slightly turns around the third bunker.  The green is just enough above you from the fairway to cause second shots to come up short.  The green is long and skinny with 3 bunkers to the left and a hillside to the right and a small chipping area behind.  It tempts people to bail away from the bunkers, but then they find out they have no shot down to the green.  There is only one tree in play to block the second shot for someone who hits a long hooked tee shot.  It is a good starting hole, about the right length to get everyone going, but with just enough difficulty to penalize someone who didn't warm up or wake up well enough.

[rkg]

Anyone ever played Misquamicut in Watch Hill, RI? The bunkerless first hole of this Ross course tees off from an elevated tee, nearly under a porch of the clubhouse.  It has a magically undulating fairway that narrows at around 250.  The approach is about 135yd to 165yd depending on which slope in the fairway you catch. The  generally flat (3 to 4 %) green is mostly hidden in a punch bowl. The hole provides a ton of fun, and some thinking at  the start.  It may not be the best, but it  sure is great fun and a great start to a great round.

[TEPaul]

Kyle:     I met you at the Misquamicut tournament this year- I think we were talking about Atlantic City G.C.     Glad you mentioned it, I'd never seen it before and I'm intrigued with the place. I call it "unique antique".      You're right the 1st is a really neat opener and what a fairway. I like the 9th even more and for the same reasons. How about the  4th!!!-that is definitely one of the neatest little drivable par 4s I've ever seen, all kinds of options. I thought every hole was interesting and fun except for the 5th and the 7th-both kind of usual. How about the green contours on the 6th and the 15th and how about the 18th as a match play closer? I can't get out of my mind the way fairway bent melded from the 18th all around the putting green and on up to the clubhouse. It was more than once someone next to me on the putting green was in the process of dropping off the green to play out the 18th. Wouldn't mind recommending that for my course.       Everybody interested in the old courses  should see Misquamicut!

[Jason Mandel]

I know this topic has been brought up rather recently, but I found this post and thought this thread should be brought back up.  I was not around GCA when this type of stuff was going on, but this is definitily classic GCA discussion board stuff, two guys like David Eger and Tom Doak going at it about what a first hole should be like.

I noticed Eger appeared in a lot of the early posts, when did he stop posting, and was there a reason for such?

Jason Mandel

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