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Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Rulewich and Yale
« on: October 19, 1999, 08:00:00 PM »
The word is that Roger Rulewich is planning to "restore" Yale for his alma mater. Is the course safe in his hands?
jeffmingay.com

Seth Raynor

Rulewich and Yale
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 1999, 08:00:00 PM »
NO -bad news travels fastJeff - see previous post on Yale

GeoffreyC

Rulewich and Yale
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 1999, 08:00:00 PM »
The two people who I have directly spoken with think highly of Rulewich (an alum of Yale) and his attitude about the Yale project.  My own mind is not at all made up yet but I assure you that Yale GC isn't ruined. The biggest change really isn't the bunkers but the sprinkler system which has made for lusher fairways with much cleaner lies but fairways that play significantly slower. I imagine that National must have changed much the same way and if someone would take me there I'd love to find out for myself.   As far as I know (and I will inquire more deeply) he will only "restore" the bunkers and work on selected tees.  If he touches the greens at all I know that I will personally bury him in a very shallow grave under the 10th green to recreate MacDonald/Raynors contours. The bunkers so far restored seem to be fine although they undoubtedly retain a "cleaner" look than the originals as seen in the clubhouse pictures made during construction and the two in Geoff Shackelford's wonderful new book. I had originally thought that the "restored" bunkers on #5 were not as deep as prior to the work but more careful inspection in relation to the old pictures showed that they are about the same depth. In that regard, I know someone on the Greens Committee who was present when Rulewich dug out these bunkers and he told me that he dug until he hit the obvious bottom of MacDonalds original work.  He then dug in needed drainage and restored them with new materials.  Same for bunkers on #s 1 and 8.  #4 may need to be redone. It has looked like that for a while.  I havn't seen any really old pictures of it. If that's all he intends to do then I don't think he can hurt the course and the bunkers needed work.  Personally, I wish he (or better yet Tom Doak) would get some old photos and talk to the old timers about restoring #12 to the "alps" that it was. Apparently, there was a great cross bunker protecting the entire front of the green and a much greater hill also guarding the front (George B can confirm as he originally wrote this this in a post and several other long time members subsequently told me what it looked like).  Old timers tell me that it was impressive but apparently removed I think sometime in the 50's. The two small shallow pots currently in place are about the weakest part of the course as is the flat area in front of the green. Shows what a greens committee can do to improve on MacDonald/Raynor.  I've since also looked at site of the old punchbowl 3rd green near the water and it must have been a really fun drive and pitch hole. I guess it was really important to add some length to #3 at some time in the past and put the present green behind the hill to make up for the lost alps on #12. I actually like #3 today (I think its a good and fair blind hole) but I'd like to know who did the changes and why.    I will try to find out more about the plans and I also intend to push for some real restoration work based on the history of the course and the original plans.    

George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Rulewich and Yale
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 1999, 08:00:00 PM »
GeoffreyC:  you wrote: "I guess it was really important to add some length to #3 at some time in the past and put the present green behind the hill to make up for the lost alps on #12. I actually like #3 today (I think its a good and fair blind hole) but I'd like to know who did the changes and why. I will try to find out more about the plans and I also intend to push for some real restoration work based on the history of the course and the original plans."(George Bahto): The original double punchbowl green may have had some drawbacks - too low, bad drainage (hard to believe Raynor with bad drainage) and obviously all the slicers probably often hit their second into the stream slowing play. That area is pretty mushy.  It also may have had something to do with the building of the "new" back tee for the great 4th hole and the hazard of hitting someone on the origianl 3rd green.To me the problem with the present green is that is does not go with the rest of those wonderful greens.  It sits there like a oversized .As for who made the changes, although I'm told he will not admit to it, it seems to have been the super who was there for so long.
If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

GeoffreyC

Rulewich and Yale
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 1999, 08:00:00 PM »
I was kidding when I said that they changed the hole because they needed some added length but I do agree with you about the old greensite being at a very low point on the course.  I also agree completely about the character of that green being so different from all the others.  I always assumed that was due to the blind shot and not wanting to build something akin to those f@@!!##%^n Stranz blind green complexes at Tobacco Road.

Brian_Gracely

Re:Rulewich and Yale
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2004, 11:12:26 PM »
Bumping this up from the archives.  I assume Geoff would look back on this post and wonder how his initial assumptions could be so far off  :(

GeoffreyC

Re:Rulewich and Yale
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2004, 12:33:43 PM »
Brian- you asked about how my initial assumptions could be so far off?

The answer really is EDUCATION. It's really a lesson for those at their home courses to learn about their history before making any changes they will regret later.

In my defense I did end with the following " I will try to find out more about the plans and I also intend to push for some real restoration work based on the history of the course and the original plans."

I did follow up on that statement!




Brian_Gracely

Re:Rulewich and Yale
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2004, 12:39:06 PM »
Geoff,

I didn't intend that to be a knock on you.  I'm trying to do the same thing at my home course as many changes are being proposed under the guise of "return it to its original character & design".

I was just going through old posts (wow, they all used to only be 3-5 posts) and that one really caught my eye.  But you're exactly right....morale of the story.....look (and learn) before you leap!  Hopefully Yale someday returns to its greatness.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2004, 12:40:23 PM by Brian_Gracely »

GeoffreyC

Re:Rulewich and Yale
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2004, 01:13:59 PM »
Brian

I did not take anything negative from your statement.  It really is a good lesson.  Most architects will not do homework for you if you're not an inherent part of the process.

Yale has solved their maintenance issues and addressed drainage. The course from a playing perspective is better then I have ever seen it this year.  Kudos to Scott Ramsey and to those who hired him. I hope he has the authority and inititive to dig out some of the bunkers in house and bring them to where they should be. I had a lot of time to review a couple of hundred construction photos and they really reinforced my views and the views of real MacRaynor experts that Yale as built was one of the great courses in all the world.

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