[cary lichtenstein]

I think the population of Mullen is something like 585, not a lot of locals by anyone's count.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Is this why Michael Moore wants us to come to Maine but not really...

I am sorry to blow his cover, but the spirit of this thread demands it.

The things that JakaB does not understand about the East Coast is wider than a Tom Doak fairway. People who live in Portland, Northern Massachusetts, lived in New York City, attended Brown University and work for high tech companies ARE NOT from Maine. My wife's brother-in-law who grew up in Rumford, Maine smelling the paper plant for 24/7 as a kid IS from Maine. Trust me, Mr Moore will not debate this as he has met George.

PS. You would be smart to not hire me.

[Jason Blasberg]

Mike,

I am curious.  Do the locals in the Hamptons that clean houses and wait tables hate the Gothamites..Is it really worth the influx of money when compared to the life that once was...Is this why Michael Moore wants us to come to Maine but not really...

Jaka:

You know life is never that neat and we don't all fit into nice little categories like locals vs. cityfolk, certainly not on Long Island.  

For instance, my father-in-law grew up a duck farmer in Speonk (the new Westhampton) and will be foreover a local in the hamptons, especially the town of Westhampton.  But he became a pilot had 4 girls one of whom became a nyc yuppie lawyer who married another nyc yuppie lawyer who now are struggling with the concept of giving up a family farm house and trying to preserve the family roots, etc.  However I assure you when I walk into Citerallas on Montauk Highway in Eastport next weekend in my wool sweater covering a polo turtleneck atop grey wool slacks the old guy behind the counter will secretely hate me. . . loath my presence while thinking of the good old days when he worked as a kid on the duck farm down the road and there were no McMansions being built everywhere and his parents could afford the property taxes on their modest 3 bedroom cape.  

Of course we'll likely preserve that old farm house, hire that old man's son to rebuild the failing roof and keep that old man's grandchildren in nikes for another year.  

But hey, he hates me and he probably should.  But is he better off working on the duck farm?

[John_Cullum]

I wonder how the ducks feel?

[John Kavanaugh]

Mike,

I am curious.  Do the locals in the Hamptons that clean houses and wait tables hate the Gothamites..Is it really worth the influx of money when compared to the life that once was...Is this why Michael Moore wants us to come to Maine but not really...

Jaka:

You know life is never that neat and we don't all fit into nice little categories like locals vs. cityfolk, certainly not on Long Island.  

For instance, my father-in-law grew up a duck farmer in Speonk (the new Westhampton) and will be foreover a local in the hamptons, especially the town of Westhampton.  But he became a pilot had 4 girls one of whom became a nyc yuppie lawyer who married another nyc yuppie lawyer who now are struggling with the concept of giving up a family farm house and trying to preserve the family roots, etc.  However I assure you when I walk into Citerallas on Montauk Highway in Eastport next weekend in my wool sweater covering a polo turtleneck atop grey wool slacks the old guy behind the counter will secretely hate me. . . loath my presence while thinking of the good old days when he worked as a kid on the duck farm down the road and there were no McMansions being built everywhere and his parents could afford the property taxes on their modest 3 bedroom cape.  

Of course we'll likely preserve that old farm house, hire that old man's son to rebuild the failing roof and keep that old man's grandchildren in nikes for another year.  

But hey, he hates me and he probably should.  But is he better off working on the duck farm?

Thanks for the honest post.  If the man would be better off or not I do not know but I've never met an old farmer who works now either at Toyota or one of our local prisons that wouldn't prefer to be back on the farm trying to beat the banker one more year.  

[RJ_Daley]

Once you guys have the next re-write of 'The Great Gadsby" worked out, can we get back to Mullen and environs north up to Valentine?  


I can't get the link working to find the article Adam.  I would much appreciate it if you can cut and paste it here or e-mail it.

But, I have been to Doc Trimbles land and did take note of the area.  One thing is that the land Doc Trimble wants to develop the course on is just a few miles up the road from a fishing-state park dam/lake area.  Now, I gotta figure they get a lot of outsider yeah hoos in those parts for the fishin.  Also, it is generally part of the Niabrarra River recreational area, where they have rafting and fishing and camping-hiking.  Again, that brings in a bunch of outlanders.

They obviously have a strong ranching-cattleman's community.  These folks are traditional, but I think have many diverse ideas about the land, its long term management and stewardship.  I'm pretty confident that they don't see the Doc as some sort of troublemaker that is bringing foreign and strange practices of golf to their pristine land.  I bet many of them are all for his long range plans.  

All this stuff about locals disliking outsiders is pretty much horsehockey.  Sure, there are a % of them that are insular in their thinking, just like there are arrogant dwellers in urban areas that regard country folk as hicks.  But, there are probably just as many feuds between long time sand hill resident families as their are misgivings about outsiders.  I even know of one long time ranching family that isn't liked at all in the general region there.  

[Jason Blasberg]

I wonder how the ducks feel?

Much better.  

[john_stiles]

Oh my, I think we are talking 'reality golf course show' here.

Locals upset, locals hate some locals, locals hate some outsiders, locals like outsiders money, outsiders love the area, school board could cause problems, raters upset locals, outsiders distrust raters, raters are tying to get there, etc.

We only need a few asphalt lobbyists, a page boy or two, a cheeky comment by a GCA about the GCA,  some arts and craft influences, and it writes itself.

[cary lichtenstein]

So this duck walks into a bar and orders a beer and the bartender says how's your day?

The duck replies that his name is Dewey, his day has been great, he's been in and out of puddles all day

About 5 minutes later, another duck walks in, orders a beer and the bartender says what's your name. He says it is Huey, my day has been great, I've been in and out of puddles all day.

A few minutes later a 3rd duck arrives and orders a beer. This time the bartender says, "I bet your name is Luey", and the duck replies, "no, my name is Puddles"

[Mike_Sweeney]

If the man would be better off or not I do not know but I've never met an old farmer who works now either at Toyota or one of our local prisons that wouldn't prefer to be back on the farm trying to beat the banker one more year.  

John,

You conveniently forgot to mention the miles and miles of new roads that you have paved over those same farmers farms. And can you please introduce us to one that you met at a prison or Toyota dealership as opposed to the ones that you play with at one of your clubs.

For crying out loud, you build infrastructure in America. If we buy your line of reasoning, YOU are part of the problem, as we golfers need nice roads to drive up to Sand Hills or Ballyneal.

By the way, what the hell is a guy building infrastructure in the Midwest of America over farms doing at a TOYOTA dealership.  

PS Speaking of Maine, I think Maine getting The Mets out of that first inning could be a serier turner.

[Adam Clayman]

Backers say Snake River golf course plan in danger

BY PAUL HAMMEL

VALENTINE, Neb. - Developers of a luxury golf course along the scenic Snake River are crying "foul" instead of "fore" about their proposed $17 million project.

Both the current and former owners of the Prairie Club are blaming actions by a state school-land agency for delaying their construction by advocating development on land next to the course.

Jay Gildersleeve, the general counsel of the State Board of Educational Lands and Funds, said his agency is doing nothing more than its job, which is to maximize income from rent and sales on the public land it manages for the benefit of schoolchildren.

Both Dr. Cleve Trimble, the former owner of the Prairie Club, and Paul Schock, who recently bought the site, say that Gildersleeve's public talk of allowing development on school land adjacent to the golf course has harmed their project and scared off investors.

State Sen. Deb Fischer of Valentine also is expressing concern.

Course construction hasn't yet begun. But as seen by the developers, the threat is this: if the adjacent school land were sold, new owners could build homes or cabins on it, ruining the view from their planned "pristine" golf course.

New owners also could legally ask the Cherry County Board for access to that landlocked school property, and if it is approved, a road could wind up cutting across the golf course.

Schock, a Sioux Falls, S.D., investor who bought the Prairie Club in August, said such a situation would be unacceptable, and it may force him to amend or even scrap the golf course plans.

"Imagine the Sand Hills Club course (near Mullen) with a paved road through it and a housing development next door. That would not sit well," Schock said.

Gildersleeve said his agency has no legal right to dictate how a buyer might use the adjacent land, and that the golf course developers see "demons" where there aren't any.

He said a potential solution - selling the school land to Trimble as a means of preventing development - apparently has fallen apart.

The Board of Educational Lands and Funds is entrusted with managing about 1.4 million acres that were established as public land in pioneer days. It leases the land, selling some parcels, and manages investments, realizing revenue, which was about $45 million in 2005 that is used to help fund schools across the state.

Plans for the Prairie Club, southwest of Valentine, first were announced in 2004. Two Scottish links-style 18-hole courses, along with cabins for guests and a clubhouse, were initially expected to open this year.

The Valentine course, developers said, would be similar to the Sand Hills Golf Club and Dismal River Club courses near Mullen, drawing golfers from across the country to experience the unique terrain of Nebraska's Sand Hills.

It would also create about 50 jobs, and, Trimble said, provide college scholarships for teens who work at the course.

Trimble, who first bought land along the Snake River 20 years ago, said his vision of Prairie Club courses included an unimpeded view.

That's where the adjacent school trust land comes in - the clubhouse overlooks a section of school land that is traversed by the Snake River, the state's best trout-fishing stream.

Trimble now leases the school land, but last year, Gildersleeve came to Valentine and spoke of how the school land would make an ideal site for homes.

That, Trimble said, put a chill into investors because of the issues of the view and the possible road.

A year ago, Trimble offered to buy the leased school land, offering about $1,500 an acre, 10 times its assessed value as grazing land.

Such a bid would have qualified to put the land up for public auction, which is how school land must be sold. But the school lands agency rejected Trimble's bid as too low.

Fischer, the state senator who represents the area, said she questions why such a bid was rejected.

"I didn't realize the educational school lands and funds was in the development business or the speculation business," Fischer said.

Gildersleeve said that the agency's job is to get top dollar for its property, and recent land sales along the Snake River have topped $3,000 an acre.

The 1,850-acre Prairie Club land, for instance, recently sold to Shock for $5.9 million, or about $3,200 an acre.

Trimble, who is still involved in the golf course project despite his sale, said that he'd be willing to pay that amount for the school land but is concerned that if he wasn't the successful bidder at the public auction, another buyer would seek a road across the golf course.

"All we're doing is a game of land chess," he said.

[Ron Farris]

Well over a month ago I spoke with the gentleman who purchased the golf course land for the Prairie Club.  The project is not dead, but it must get over a few hurdles.  I grew up 52 miles from the site and quite frankly many locals would welcome the project.  It is about 16 miles from Valentine.  In these parts that is not much of a drive, even for a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk.

[John Kavanaugh]

If the man would be better off or not I do not know but I've never met an old farmer who works now either at Toyota or one of our local prisons that wouldn't prefer to be back on the farm trying to beat the banker one more year.  

John,

You conveniently forgot to mention the miles and miles of new roads that you have paved over those same farmers farms. And can you please introduce us to one that you met at a prison or Toyota dealership as opposed to the ones that you play with at one of your clubs.

For crying out loud, you build infrastructure in America. If we buy your line of reasoning, YOU are part of the problem, as we golfers need nice roads to drive up to Sand Hills or Ballyneal.

By the way, what the hell is a guy building infrastructure in the Midwest of America over farms doing at a TOYOTA dealership.  

PS Speaking of Maine, I think Maine getting The Mets out of that first inning could be a serier turner.

Did I ever say the locals don't hate me too...I did just buy a Toyota in a pathetic and oh so transparent attempt to fit in..We have a huge plant in the area that provides some of the best jobs around, even though I do know someone who quit to go back to the prison because it is less structured.   Don't ask...I didn't buy a Prius like all the movie stars and Hamptonites do..

[Jason Hines]

Here is a little of the history, it has technically been around since 1867.  I imagine that around here, most of the 16 and 36 sections have been sold long ago.  (In the big city of Omaha)  

I don’t think they are going to get around it, sounds like they need to up their bid for the children.

http://www.belf.state.ne.us/history.htm

[RJ_Daley]

Thanks for the article, Adam.  I didn't know that Doc sold land to the other guy.  I think I understand the context of the issue now.  

Basically, it looks like a bureaucrat chairman of the School Land Trust is playing power games on the back of Doc Trimble and the others trying to make this remarkable golf course project a success.  

It would seem they have a standoff.  The overlook to the Snake river canyon - NW of the Doc's land is beautiful and all.  But, if there is no golf course, I doubt there is any market for folks to build multiple housing.  I guess it would be prime for one or two "ranchettes" of 320 acres or more, with nice central houses descretely placed because of the view and proximity to the beautiful canyon.  But, I can't see a bunch of folk building there absent a primary draw of a public-private golf course of world class drawing power.  Folks that would put just one or two ranchettes there without the golf course - because they love the land would not likely site them in such a way that is contrary to their interests, and junk-up the views and pristine nature of that section.  

But, with a public course, or even a private one, I would be worried that folks would try to condo out or somehow build multi-unit housing.  That would really crap the whole thing up.  

What a shame.  Maybe the obstacle to the golf course development is a blessing in disguise.  Maybe, with all the other stuff happening and speculated in the golf arena in the sand hills, it is over done already.  It seems to me, if there is no golf course, and thus no interest to develop the school trust land, then we would hope it stays undeveloped and used as ranch-grazing land as always.  There are 100s of thousands of acres in the SHs for other courses.  Maybe none left with quite the unique beauty as the Doc's overlooking the cap rocks of the Snake canyon.  

But, take a place like BallyNeal.  It has no river canyon, just great chop hills.  The absence of a secondary view and nature attraction isn't going to hurt that effort one bit.  

Maybe there are still politics to be played.  Maybe a counter effort to get some sort of legislation like a 25 year moratorium to not allowing any bridging over the snake, thus killing access to that school land from that road would help.  Or, moratorium on rezoning it to anything to do with residential.  It sure would be nice if the State came in and just declared the school section a nature conservatory or something, no chance for development.

The sad thing is that it seems the school trust intentions are opportunistic and predicated on the Doc's initiatives.  But, the Doc approached his project specifically with reasons that he wanted to craft a "long term" solution to the preservation of as much of the area as possible.  That meant finding a way to parcel off a small section to a revenue generating enterprise, the golf project.  I think the Doc had the long term in mind, the school district and the bureaucrats have nothing but opportunism as their intentions to fund their trust as an empire builder, and not all that effective of school tax relief.  

[Adam Clayman]

Sadly Dick, I don't have a clue how it works around here, politically. I did here one person udder the age old justification of "best use" but I just took that to mean that this guy Gildersleeve (what is this Hamlet?) was exercising his political muscle, as you said.

Reading between the lines I suspect something much more nefarious. Maybe not in his exercising, but in his public interest in this matter. Wouldn't he have best served the agency by laying low, and then, after the course was built, spring the surprise?

[john_stiles]

Oh my, now I get the drift of the thread title.  
Best wishes to the PC folks.

[Jason Hines]

I wish the Prairie Club luck, I think my previous post are all in support of the development of the sand hills for golf.  

I am a huge private property rights, anti-big brother eminent domain guy.  That being said, if the Prairie Club wants unencumbered views and access for their vision, it sounds like they need to buy some more land.  Especially when they want privacy and to restrict elements of the general public.

To say their vision is superior and their goals and wants should be exempt from market forces, falls kind of flat.  I agree with their vision, I despise the boom boxes and litter bugs on our public land as well.  But, I don’t see how this is different from the people who own land around a proposed mall or if a Starbucks wants to expand or a new football stadium needs a parking lot.

[Mike_Sweeney]

To say their vision is superior and their goals and wants should be exempt from market forces, falls kind of flat.  I agree with their vision, I despise the boom boxes and litter bugs on our public land as well.  But, I don’t see how this is different from the people who own land around a proposed mall or if a Starbucks wants to expand or a new football stadium needs a parking lot.

I probably agree with what you said, but your analogy is incorrect. The far majority of football stadiums are financed partially with tax payer dollars.

Perhaps the locals are positioning for a piece of the action rather than just receiving tax dollars. I have no idea, but with that remote location, everything needs to be right to get golfers to make that trip more than once on the newly paved roads.  

[Jason Hines]

Good Morning Mike,

I did not phrase that well, I meant the people that own the land (School Trust) of the future parking lot are going to raise their price.

The appealing aspect of the Prairie Club is their distinct location, public access and desire to do the right things to get the golfers.

PS - Adam, that subject title should be nominated for best of the year.

J.

[RJ_Daley]

I think the State ought to come in and exercise some sort of oversight.  Or the townships, or which ever entitiy has zoning authority.  Perhaps a challenge to both the Prairie Club to rethink the position of their club house, which is up top of the cap rock overlooking the spectacular view of the river below, and a restriction to further building development in the river corridor for a distance set back as far as the view extends from the cap rock rim in all directions would do the trick.  It would mean the club would have to compromise and put the lodge and such somewhere near Doc's homestead house, and the School trust land would not be able to have buildings within sight of the best part of the views from the area along the rim where golf holes would be.  

However it breaks out, I think the main goal should be to preserve the area for the long views, while still having the more unintrusive aspect to a course designed along the ground, where nature can still be enjoyed in the recreational sense.  

But, it is a tough call.  Like Sand Hills Club, there is a special place that is part of the mystique which are the cabins along the Dismal among the jack pine.  If you can't have that at Prairie, maybe many prospective members won't just buy in for the superb golf (which it will be).  

I really feel bad for Gil and Geoff, and of course for Doc.  They could have something really special there.

[John Kavanaugh]

Huck once said that Sand Hills would no longer be his favorite in the world if he could see other structures from the course.  I really can't believe this attitude even though I understand it..

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()