[Ran Morrissett]

Apart from Cypress and NGLA, I can think of something bad to say about every course, from the importation of sand/cleaning of bunker edges/now regular raking/overabundance of 1000s of trees at Pine Valley to a single blemish like the overbuilt 4th tee at Oakmont.

Still, having watched Royal Melbourne on TV for several days now and thinking back on numerous rounds there, I just can't help but think that this is a perfect course (or least bad as Colt might put it).

Brilliant playing surfaces, completely natural, highly strategic, dramatically changing day to day in the wind and according to hole locations, fun for all, as many world class holes as any course can rightfully have - what more can you want

It makes the maintenance practices at Augusta National look down right stupid and its bunkers are true art forms, much more so than those at a first class courses like Shinnecock Hills or Priaire Dunes.

What is the worst thing you can say about RM? Lack of distance for the top 1% of 1% of players? While that is true, so what? The same is true for every other course normally considered in the world top dozen or so.

RM - be it the Composite course or the West Course - seems flawless. Doak needs to add an 11 to his scale - and I know three candidates for it.

Cheers,

[RJ_Daley]

What is the worst thing you can say about RM?

hmmmm, they sure have alot of flies!
golf hat

[Brian Phillips]

Ran,

After watching and discussing the course over the last four or so days, I have to admit being mesmerized by the course.  I was really questioning the course at the start of the week but the education from people like Clayton, Dela and Daley as well as really studying it on TV over the four days has converted me into a true believer.

As you stated it is maybe too short for the top 1% of the world on a windless wet day but today it bit back.

The way the front nine messed with Ernie's head today was just fascinating to watch.  I am the same as you, (I haven't played or even been near the course yet) and it just seems to be the greatest in the world in my eyes.

The bunkering is superb, the chipping areas (as some Americans like to call them) are confusing for the great player, the width is just unreal (it must be fun for a normal golfer to be able to blast a driver so often), the variety of rough and bushes and trees sets up the holes.

I could go on and on...

I recorded the last day today and the tab has now come off the video tape to be kept for many years.

It does make a mockery of any other course having to create false difficulties like you mentioned at ANGC and any US Open.

There is no other course in the world at the moment that interests me more.  I even thought about how I was going to sketch up the greens if I do come over in November.  Of course I am hoping to play the course but I would really like to caddy there for a few days or just be allowed to just walk and watch all different levels of golfers play there.

Brian.

[A_Clay_Man]

Ran- Did I see yesterday that the openning date is 1891?

Is any or all of that original course being played, today?

[Brian Phillips]

Adam,

The club was formed on 22 may 1891 at a meeting held in the Scotts Hotel.  It is the oldest club in Australia.  The first course was laid out by Tom Finlay (founder member)  and had a yardage of 4750.  The course opened in July the same year.

Queen Victoria granted the title Royal in 1895.

The club wanted to move and the Club's council went on a picnic in May 1898 and held it on a hillside in Sandringham.  This picnic site is the now the site where the East's 1st tee and the West's 8th tee are situated.  It is eight miles from the old site.

The new course was first designed by Peter Anderson and opened in 1901. Various changes and redesigns were done over the years.

Soon Mick Morcom started to have influence on the course (who was 15 when the club was formed) and undertook a redesign in 1909 and the yardage was 6166 and a bogey of 80.

MacKenzie arrived in 1926 and re-routed the course but it was Mick Morcom that completed the construction and was in charge of the bunkering, he was also in charge of the Alex Russell course (the East course).

MacKenzie never saw the course completed...

All this information is taken from the fine book called 'A round Forever' by John Scarth which is the story of Morcom's family and his career as a designer and constructor.

I hope I have written everything correctly and if anyone finds any mistakes please do correct me.

Cheers

Brian.

[DPL11]

Ran,

I couldn't wait to get up this morning and watch the coverage. I too have never been, but RM has zoomed up my list of courses to play before I die.

The bunkering is spectacular, and only through TV coverage, I can't find anything that would benefit from change.

What a tuna-a-mint! The course certainly showed its teeth today. Els did blame a bad bunker play on the greens staff. He claimed there was no sand in a rear bunker, and "the Greenkeeper should be made aware of it."




Doug

[TEPaul]

Ran:

I've never been to Australia but like you I watched the last three days of the tournament at Royal Melbourne and sure liked everything I could see on TV. Wonderful bunkering, particularly placement (love that unique Aussie style and sharp look too), wonderful strategic angles on those holes, green designs, surfaces, roll-offs, rough the way rough should be, pretty much the whole package.

It looked like with the wind up today the front nine anyway made the course play different and interesting. I'm real impressed with RM but I was before on TV.

The thing I'd like to ask those on here about who follow the Euro/Austro/Asian tour is that fellow Renton Laidlaw. I've heard him before but not for this kind of three day duration. I think I remember a lot of contributors to this site saying how good he was. Why would they say that? He's obvously a comfortable, chatty voice but sure didn't tell me anything that was interesting or informative. Afterall, how many times do we have to hear about a 18, 36, 54 and 72 holes record? If he mentioned that once he mentioned it at least 100 times!!

As a golf commentator the worst thing Renton did for himself is ask Peter Thompson into the booth for most of today. I don't believe Thompson even is a golf TV commentator but as far as I'm concerned Thompson today was perhaps the best and most interesting golf commentator I ever heard in my life.

There was no end to the interesting and highly informative things he had to say about that course, it's architecture, its history, the history of its grasses, different playability amongst bunkers today vs they way some were in the past, a great insight into the thinking and strategies of the players today vs yesteryear, and some other very honest critical commentary as the round went along. He even talked about the ball, a need for a limitation etc.

Peter Thompson was just fantastic and so was RM, in my book!

[RJ_Daley]

Ditto about Thompson!  And as mentioned on another thread, Mike Clayton was appreciated the other day as well.

[Brian Phillips]

You boys had better start getting his surname correct...if you like him so much.

Thomson

not

Thompson

Brian

[Chris Kane]

Ran,

The only real weakness I can see in the West course is the absence of a genuine three-shotter for the skilled player.  All four par-5's are easily reachable, with 12W in particular being a simple 4 (it plays as a 4 during the tournament).  Of course, when designed in the late 20's, all four hole would have been terrific risk/reward holes, but technology has made them tougher two-shot holes rather than par-5's.  Thats why many of us now refer to RM as a par 68.

There have been a number of threads documenting Darren Kilfara's observation that the course is relatively easy for good players under member conditions without wind - I don't know if this is a weakness, but there is no question that RM is the easiest course for a teen-marker on the sandbelt, unless the wind blows!

[RJ_Daley]

Mr Philups, of corse your wright.  

[Bob_Huntley]

TEPaul,

I had the good fortune to sit next to Peter Thomson at a dinner I hosted in St. Andrews last September, the one by the way, that you were unable to make!

A more erudite golfing raconteur would be hard to find. His depth of knowledge of golf history, architecture and equipment is encyclopaedic. I reminded him that many years ago someone asked him why he had never written an instructional book on golf. His brief reply was that there wasn't enough in the golf swing to warrrant one. After dinner,he said with a wry smile, that he might be changing his mind, I believe he was offered a substantial sum to put pen to paper.

Apart from golf, he has been a correspondent for the Melbourne Sun and once ran for Parliament. A remakable man.

[TEPaul]

"TEPaul,
I had the good fortune to sit next to Peter Thomson at a dinner I hosted in St. Andrews last September, the one by the way, that you were unable to make!"

Bob;

If you ever ask me to dinner like that again I guarantee I'll fly across the ocean if I have to!

[TEPaul]

Brian:

I knew it was Thomson, not Thompson and I actually spelled it wrong about three times. I'm just losing my mind!

[Chris Kane]

Aclayman,

The Melbourne Golf Club (later Royal) was founded in 1891, with a course in Caulfield, which is 10 minutes S-E of the city.  As Brian says, they moved in 1901 to Sandringham (a number of members remained and formed the Caulfield, later Metropolitan Golf Club), and then moved to Black Rock (a minute further south) in 1930 following the completion of the West Course.  Many of the West Course holes at Royal Melbourne are adaptions of holes on the Sandringham layout.

Brian,

Be very careful using Scarth's book as your primary source - TommyN is liable to have a fit.

[NAF]

Myself and my friend Jim Reilly played two matches at Royal Melbourne back in November 2002.  We were fortunate enough to play in a Composite Course tournament as well the club held.  Jim and I have played some amazing matches all over the world.  We've been to St. Andrews, Shinny, National and all over the U.K.  But our greatest match took place at Royal Melbourne.  It was a hot furance like day and the weather changed a bit throughout with the wind blowing a northerly warm and then switching to the cool south towards the end.  I can say this, I've never played a better place for match play than Royal Melbourne.  The tee shot strategy on a hole like #6 or the option of trying for the green in 2 on all the par 5s or a tempting hole like #10 (where I blew up blasting a driver into the bunker and then over the green to an enormous tightly mown chipping area) showed me how much you must respect the course.  With all of the width, one gets seduced into thinking they can drive the ball anywhere but in actuality you must pick your spots.  Furthermore, the greens were devilish and near dirt status when I played due to a drought.  I could have shot a career round at Royal Mel as I was driving the ball well but I didnt because of my inability to read some of the swirling vortexes in the greens.  I remember walking off of the course for the last time and thinking 3 things.  1) I can learn so much by playing this course day after day 2) This must be how Dr. Mac wanted Augusta to be and 3) These are the best bunkers I've ever seen.  Oh yeah and the match, I was 3 down with 3 to play and halved the match with my only 1 putt of the day to save par on the 18th.. My opponents 3 3 putts finished him off from winning the match.

Just one note, RM played the best firm and fast I ever saw.  The only course I've seen ever play that good was NGLA this fall thanks to the new super Bill Sallinetti and Matt Burrows.

[Steve Lapper]

Like the Naffer, I've had the good (no.. GREAT) pleasure of playing several rounds on the RM Composite course and left there knowing I wanted to one day return to appreciate it all over again.

Like ANY other course, RM (Composite or West)does have its minor imperfections(lack of really strategically distanced three-shotters) and like near any other course, yields easily to modern days pros and their equipment when given totally benign conditions(which course doesn't?). Nothing is totally perfect and likely never should be, but like Ran said, RM might well be the "least bad course" EVER created. It is simply that good and that complete!

The 3's and 4's are all architectually unique, strategic and fufilling and well-balanced. Every hole ultimately has a green that necessitates the correct angle approach for yield-to-reward. No green on either course is simple, so blatantly devoid of subtlety or straight-forward or easy.

I have had a wonderful time the past few years playing some of the world's other great courses and have spent some good time and measure discussing them here. Yet I have had this nagging feeling, confirmed once again by the fortunate coverage these past few days, that RM may well be the single BEST and MOST COMPLETE course I've ever played.

That same exact feeling had me asking my wife if, for my 50th b-day, could I go back one more time. Surprisingly, after wishing her "pleasant dreams" at 1:30pm last night, she told me at breakfast this morning(once again with the same broadcast going on the television)....."You should go back "down-under" and visit your other love in four years......YIPPPPEEE!

[Andrew Summerell]

I don't believe Thompson even is a golf TV commentator

Thomson use to commentate for many years on Australia's ABC, when they had the golf.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Aside from the flies, the only problem I can create concerning Royal Melbourne would be their use of the West and East courses, and their order.  Aren't they using the #1 on the West as the 17th in the composite?  If so IMHO they are taking a great opening hole and putting it in a the wrong place.
TE Paul
As for the commentary, Renton Laidlaw appeared to be living in the past, not doing his homework, and spending too much time eating.  It looks like he has gained 70 pounds.  Too bad I have always enjoyed his work.  The telecast was great, thanks to the course, players and Peter Thomson.  Thankfully Thomson pointed out that 6 of the 18 holes were from Alex Russell's East Course.  I played the courses in 1990.  I believe this was on the original grass for the greens.  Strangest mix of grasses I ever saw, but rock hard and smooth.  Thomson may have been most forthright in mentioning they still don't have the greens right.  He may have sounded to some like a negative old timer, but to me he was a breath of fresh air in commentating.  How many American announcers would be critical of Tiger's swing?
RM has always been one of the top 5 I have played, I think it is majestic in size.

[Graeme Grant]

I would like to add a little more to the comments on Royal Melbourne especially given Greg Norman's opinion in this morning's press.
For those who have not been there, it is God's own country blessed with some of the best construction ever seen.  However the design and placement of most of the drive bunkers has not offered the intended challenge for decades.
The 2nd and 18th west are prime examples of complexes set at an angle where judgement of one's ability to bite off just the right amount was supposed to produce a better angle or shorter approach.  If the wind was too strong or the player not strong enough there was fairway to the left but a much more difficult 2nd and 3rd shot was left.
This was typical MacKenzie.
It is not only the Pros who disregard all of this but even single figure amateurs don't have to concern themselves with it.
The complexes are all cut into the natural hills for effect and unless the tees can be taken back 50 or more metres they remain obsolete.
As far back as 1959, in preparation for the Canada Cup, extensions were made to the 17th east and 2nd west to bring the fairway hazards into play.  Except for a few metres on the 4th and 12th west they ran out of room years ago.
Whilst the beauty of the course is undisputed and the greens, bunkers and green surrounds still offer an exceptional challenge the overall strategy is lost.(Ernie Els seemed aghast that the sand was packed hard in the back bunker on the 6th west. It has never been any different. Seemed to me to make the hazard exactly what it was meant to be - an obstacle to be avoided.)
Some say that the course hit back on Sunday but from what I saw the ridiculous pin placements were all that saved it.
Claude Crockford would only use those spots to protect the turf in the weeks prior to a tournament.  He would turn in his grave if he could see what was going on now.  
Maybe next year the pins will be in the bunkers!!
If the course does not challenge and tempt as it was intended to, how does it rate?
None of this is intended to lambaste the course but instead to make the point that the ball has been allowed to go too far for years.
Maybe shooting 60 around one of the supposedly best courses in the world will make the administrators of our game do something positive to reduce the distance the ball travels.
One can only hope.

By way of introduction I caddied at Royal Melb.in the early 60's and began my working life there as a groundsman in 1967 - earning $32/week!

The grass in the greens seem to have brought about a lot of comment. Maybe I can contribute later.
   

[Matthew Delahunty]

Lynn,
Up until the President's Cup in 1998 1 West used to play as number 1 on the composite course. They changed it for the matchplay format so as to have matches finishing close to the clubhouse. When the Heineken Classic came to Royal Melbourne the organisers decided to stick with the new format. Most locals you speak to hate the new routing and would prefer to go back to the old one.

Traditional composite course routing is:
1W, 2W, 1E, 2E, 5W, 6W, 7W, 10W, 11W, 12W, 17W, 18W, 3W, 4W, 3E, 4E, 17E, 18E

The current routing is:
3W, 4W, 5W, 6W, 1E, 2E, 3E, 4E, 17E, 2W, 7W, 10W, 11W, 12W, 17W, 18W, 1W, 18E

1 West is a very good opening hole but a bore as a 17th. The old routing had 2 par fives and the difficult long par 3 in the last 5 holes, which made for exciting golf on the last day. The current routing finishes with seven par fours, the last six each over 430 yards in length.

Thomson has been critical of Tiger at times in the press over here. He's also a big fan of Ernie - did that come across in the telecast? We had Renton on our screens for a while a few years back. Along with Bruce Critchley, he was a regular on the Channel 7 broadcast for a few years. Nowadays the station is getting it's money's worth out of keeping Jack Newton and Brett Ogle in the box for the whole 6 hours. Someone should send the Americans/Europeans a tape of their work - it'd be a real shock to the system.

[Matthew Delahunty]

Graeme,

It's great to have your contribution.

Agreed re some of the pin positions on the final day, in particular 5 (1E), 9 (17E), 10 (2W), 12 (10W) and 18 (18E). They were similar silly pins on the days two and three. It's sad that they have to resort to this to protect a course from wedge approaches on holes which were designed for mid or long irons.

[tonyt]

Fellow Aussies,

Just a question I get asked by golf buddies but can not accurately answer;

Does any of Sandringham's back nine resemble fairly any original holes from the club? Whilst I have been able to slap down any insistance that Russell and Mack stuff is there, I haven't been able to further note what bits remain from the pre Mackenzie design.

[Mike_Clayton]

Graeme

It seemed to me Thursday was almost the day we needed to highlight the insanity of the ball and how far it goes.
Probably Royal Melbourne is the only great course professionals on any tour play all year - some majors aside - and Ernie's 60 really served to highlight how differently the course plays now from even 20 years ago.

I did laugh when Ernie complained about the back bunker at 6 West. Even the worst member knows not to go there because there is neither any sand or any shot.The hole would be easier if it was a water hazard.

[TEPaul]

Mike Clayton:

It was very nice hearing you, a contributor to Golfclubatlas, commentating on TV world-wide from RM. I knew a little about you heretofore but was glad to hear more about you and your career in golf and architecture this weekend. I'm impressed.

I hate to say this because Renton seems to be so well respected but you, as well as Peter Thomson, are better golf commentators than Renton, in my book!  

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