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James Reader

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 17 @ Royal Liverpool to be redesigned...
« Reply #50 on: July 26, 2023, 02:15:24 AM »
It’s also approaching a 300 yard walk from the 17th (15th) green to the forward tee on the 18th (16th), which can’t help either.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 17 @ Royal Liverpool to be redesigned...
« Reply #51 on: July 26, 2023, 02:20:44 AM »
An easy way to skip 17 because the transition sucks and the hole is overbearing smells a bit like a failure. However, I haven't played the hole so I don't know how harsh it is. I will reserve judgement on difficulty level, but not on the transition. The hole has to be something very special to justify the routing muckup. I have played many, many holes I think are harsh. For instance, where is the bailout on the Postage Stamp? I accept that the hole is on championship course and that my skills aren't up to the task much of the time. I wouldn't dream of changing the hole. I accept that all holes can't be for all players and that I may not like some holes.

I do understand that reversing the hole offered a tee much further back for Open 18 and that aspect of the change works well, for the Open. It becomes a question of does all this work around Open 17 & 18 need to solely support the Open or is a compromise more appropriate. It seems to me once a decision was taken to create a terrible transition, going all in was the obvious way to go as it "justifies" the awkward walk. If 17 is dumbed down to help the members, now we are left with a fairly simple Open par 3, but a more compelling Open 18.

I wonder if making Open 18 a par 4 was ever considered? Could have made a drama hole of Open 17 playing in the original direction and simply made 18 a par 4. There wasn't anything inherently wrong with Open 18 previously. It was just an easy birdie hole. Call it a par 4 and the "problem" is solved. Was the Open "problem" a bit of overthinking?

Ciao
« Last Edit: July 26, 2023, 02:28:24 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Tim Gallant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 17 @ Royal Liverpool to be redesigned...
« Reply #52 on: January 26, 2024, 03:31:56 PM »

[The planned changes were] news to Ebert. He wasn’t aware of any changes in the works. Royal Liverpool said it wasn’t, either.

“There are no plans to modify the 17th,” a club representative told GOLF.com by phone.

Link: https://golf.com/travel/architect-of-17th-hole-at-royal-liverpool/


A pdf is currently making the rounds about changes that are happening to this hole. Perhaps a member will share more details in time.

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 17 @ Royal Liverpool to be redesigned...
« Reply #53 on: January 27, 2024, 12:09:34 PM »
Felt like a 2 foot high bank and a 5% fairway slope running away on the right off the green would have been :
A- enough of a hazard for the championship... leading to a lot of : chip to 8 feet, miss putt = bogey...


B- puttable and playable for the members..


On links courses, you have to consider the potentially really firm ground and the 20mph wind or more in the design...


The hole is probably impossible downwind for a weaker player with a 7 iron in hand
If that anecdote about players moving from 16 green to 18 tee is even partially true, then the hole is a failure in the bigger scheme, regardless of its perceived value for an Open Championship.
When I was there this summer after the Open, one of the assistant pros and two members told us that it was true about some women and some seniors skipping the hole and moving from 16 to 18.


The hole also delivered the longest wait of the entire day as we watched the group in front of us struggle with the hole for a while, going in and out of sight as they knocked their balls back and forth.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Rich Milligan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 17 @ Royal Liverpool to be redesigned...
« Reply #54 on: January 28, 2024, 05:55:49 PM »
Would it ever be possible to restore or create something similar to Colt's iteration of the 17th hole?

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 17 @ Royal Liverpool to be redesigned...
« Reply #55 on: January 30, 2024, 02:25:07 PM »
Re-reading this thread reminds me of .......

atb

Frank Pont

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 17 @ Royal Liverpool to be redesigned...
« Reply #56 on: February 01, 2024, 04:04:37 AM »
Would it ever be possible to restore or create something similar to Colt's iteration of the 17th hole?
Yes