[Thomas Dai]

There are many aspects to the game. Driving, fairway metals, hybrids, long irons, mid irons, short irons, pitching, chipping, bunker play, putting, course management, mental fortitude etc etc.
Given modern era balls, clubs, player physique etc which courses on The Open rota provide a test of every aspect of the game and which courses don’t?
Atb

[Kalen Braley]

There are many aspects to the game. Driving, fairway metals, hybrids, long irons, mid irons, short irons, pitching, chipping, bunker play, putting, course management, mental fortitude etc etc.
Given modern era balls, clubs, player physique etc which courses on The Open rota provide a test of every aspect of the game and which courses don’t?
Atb

I think we know which one is on the bottom of that list! 

[Niall C]

David


At the Open the challenge is as much to do with the weather and ground conditions as it has to do with the actual course. Your inference that the challenge has been ruined due to improvements in club and ball is as wrong as Kalen's inference that TOC would be bottom of the list.


That's obviously just my view, but after 4 days of watching golf at the Open, mainly on TV but also a bit on the ground, I think I saw a far greater variety of shots executed at TOC than I saw at the other majors this year. 


Niall

[Peter Pallotta]

Interesting. When I read the many and disparate aspects of the game that David notes above, my first thought was that the list was influenced by modern-day American style aerial-and-target golf; and that on dry and firm and running links, the game is actually comprised of only two aspects/elements, ie the long (off the tee) game and the short (get it in the hole) game, and that both entail using whatever equipment-implements and type of shots are best suited to the task at hand at any given time, and in any given conditions. The champion golfer of the year is the one who understands this better than anyone else, and who then can play that way.

[Thomas Dai]

The listing isn’t US based Peter, just categories of shot etc that could - should? - be played for a 4-day event to be considered a proper test.
Returning to my original question (and ignoring TOC!*), given modern era balls, clubs, player physique is there a course on The Open rota that can test every aspect of an elite players game including driving, fairway metals, hybrids, long irons, mid irons, short irons, pitching, chipping, bunker play, putting, course management, mental fortitude etc?
Once upon a time they likely all could.
Muirfield? Troon? Hoylake? Birkdale? Lytham? Sandwich? Carnoustie?
Atb


* and the seemingly out of favour Turnberry.

[Peter Pallotta]

David, my basic point was that great golfers have been able to win the Open without every aspect of the game/every club in their bag being tested, eg in 2006, when Tiger won without once (or maybe just once?) using a driver. In other words, that links golf tests golfers differently than US courses do. That comprehensive list of requirements & equipment you provided sounded to me as if it could've come from a US Open circa 1974.
Excuse me if I've misunderstood and sidetracked the thread. Hope it can get back on track.

[JohnVDB]

David, my basic point was that great golfers have been able to win the Open without every aspect of the game/every club in their bag being tested, eg in 2006, when Tiger won without once (or maybe just once?) using a driver. In other words, that links golf tests golfers differently than US courses do

And he won another one without ever having to test his bunker play. 

[Thomas Dai]

Do any of these Open rota courses now provide an every-club-in-the-bag challenge to the modern pro with modern era balls, clubs and physique?
Muirfield? Troon? Hoylake? Birkdale? Lytham? Sandwich? Carnoustie? TOC?
How ought they be rated as challenging golf, 1 being hardest, 8 being easiest?
atb

[Sean_A]

Do any of these Open rota courses now provide an every-club-in-the-bag challenge to the modern pro with modern era balls, clubs and physique?
Muirfield? Troon? Hoylake? Birkdale? Lytham? Sandwich? Carnoustie? TOC?
How ought they be rated as challenging golf, 1 being hardest, 8 being easiest?
atb

I am not convinced any of these courses are what you seem to be describing (and/or longing for) as the perfect test of tournament golf. I fear trying to make players use every club in the bag would really lead to the bad days of US Open set up tournaments or the infamous Carnasty Open. For my part, once an abundance of long grass is introduced to stop the ball, the tournament, be it a major or a high school event, becomes far less entertaining. Folks need to decide if pro golf is for viewer entertainment or deciding who is the best golfer of the week for what seems like 70 weeks a year. The pro game in its current form can't honestly serve both masters. I am not convinced the game ever did serve both masters well...as people seem to infer. I grew up on a diet of 70s pro golf. It wasn't all that entertaining.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

So none of these courses can provide a modern era challenge, a modern era a test? A challenger, a test, is meant to be hard, really hard. Drive, pitch and putt isn’t imo a challenge, a test.
And a challenge, a test, doesn’t need rough introduced. Indeed when the grass is short off-line shots will run further off-line and result in more awkward approach shot angles.
I would suggest that when driver heads were small, balls flighted differently and iron and mid irons for second shots into par-4’s were more frequent then the game was more of a challenge, more of test, and the entertainment value was greater when watching elite players show off how good they really are especially at aspects of the game, like long iron play, which amateurs struggle with.
Atb

[Mike Bodo]

This is a really interesting thread with multiple layers going on. In the absence of wind or inclement weather, one could argue many courses on the Open Championship rota do not challenge every aspect of a golfers game, but then is that really the standard all major championships should be held to? If so, I'd argue AGNC is not a great test of one's ability to drive the ball straight as the fairways are wider than most football fields with plenty of room to get away with off-target strikes. When Bryson won the U.S. Open at Winged Foot a few years ago he pretty much got by with half the clubs in his bag, as he turned the course into a bomb and chunk fest. Unless you play major tournaments on 7,500 yd. or longer courses, I'm not sure it's possible in the modern era to test every facet of a players game and perhaps we just need to learn to live with and accept it as such and enjoy it for what it is?
 
Personally speaking I still want to see these guys play the best courses in the world regardless what the winning score is in relation to par. Say what you will about TOC, but I though the golf last week was absolutely compelling and filled drama, sub-plots and storylines, which hearkens to Sean's comment about serving two masters. I am in complete agreement with him that you can't always have both a product that identifies the best golfer and tests every facet of their game and have it also be entertaining.
 
To add one more caveat to this multi-faceted thread, I personally find LIV to be a more entertaining product than the PGA and DP World Tour and it's only going to get better as more top players defect from the latter two. Give me the men's majors, the ladies majors and 16 LIV events and that's a good professional golf viewing year for me. I'll still watch the PGA tournaments held at Pebble, The Riv, The Players, Harbor Town, Muifield Village, Colonial and a few others on acclaimed, non-TPC courses (The Players being the exception), but there are too many PGA Tour events with weak fields played on horrible courses, such as the 3M Championship this week in Minnesota at yet another cookie cutter TPC course that I will not bother tuning in. The week after that they're in my back yard in Michigan at Detroit Golf Club for the Rocket Mortgage Classic, which is played on a very good Donald Ross course with great green complexes, but it's a flat, non-demanding course for the pros and the field there will be just as weak, if not weaker than the 3M. That said, I'll be checking out the LIV event next week instead, as Bedminister should produce better theater than DGC.
 

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