Worst closing hole in championship golf

[Tommy Williamsen]

A good friend of mine and a scratch golfer texted me proclaiming that "18 at TOC is the worst finishing hole in championship golf." I like the hole but he may have a point. Yet for sheer excitement it is fun. It can produce anything from two to five, with three as the goal. It has created some exciting moments. Who can forget Rocca's hole putt through the valley of sin or Sanders' missed putt, Seve's triple fist pump. Yet, those moments don't mean it is a great hole.
So is it the worst hole of championship golf?

[Jeff Schley]

I like it a lot, certainly don't agree in the slightest. It is a driveable par 4 and exciting, for some can eagle potentially with a well executed drive/putt. To me it is exciting and I enjoy it especially when you factor in the history and background etc. Love the hole and excitement it brings.

Not a major but the par 3 finisher at East Lake for the Tour Championship before they switched the 9's was anticlimatic and not a good finisher IMO.

[cary lichtenstein]

I love it

[Tom_Doak]

Is your friend a championship player or does he just want to watch guys struggle?


If so, 17 is the hole for that.  And the contrast with 17 is what makes 18 work so well. 


Somebody will make 5 at the last tomorrow and it will cost them.  Maybe somebody will make 2.  But for most, making a 3 when all the pressure is on is not so easy.

[Peter Pallotta]

I've come to think that true + handicaps can appreciate more types of golf holes/ courses than mid to low to scratch handicaps can -- accepting and playing them for what they actually are instead of what they 'should' be.

[John Kirk]

I'm thoroughly enjoying the competition.  As regularly reported, the course impresses more upon further analysis.


It seems ideal to have a finishing hole with a scoring average of x + 0.5.  Today the pin position on #18 must be pretty easy, as the average score on #18 is about 3.3 so far.  Yesterday the scoring average among players who made the cut was very close to 3.5.  Perhaps it's the first time a major has featured a true drivable par 4 as the final hole in the round. 

[Sean_A]

Does 11 have a higher scoring average than 9 & 18 today?

Ciao

[John Kirk]

There have been 7 eagles on #9 today.  Average score is 20 strokes over 3.0 for 83 players.  Say 3.24.


The average score on #11 is 33 strokes over 3.0 for 83 players.  That's about 3.39.


Right now, hole #18 is 33 strokes over 3.0 for 77 players, so 3.43.  Two eagles.

[Thomas Dai]

I wonder how much lower amateur players handicaps would be if they were able to drive 2-3 par-4’s per round and be playing pitches or short irons as their approach shots on a few other holes?
Atb

[James Brown]

I wonder how much lower amateur players handicaps would be if they were able to drive 2-3 par-4’s per round and be playing pitches or short irons as their approach shots on a few other holes?
Atb

Go play a par 72 course with a course rating of 68.0 and see if your handicap goes up or down. 

[James Brown]

A good friend of mine and a scratch golfer texted me proclaiming that "18 at TOC is the worst finishing hole in championship golf." I like the hole but he may have a point. Yet for sheer excitement it is fun. It can produce anything from two to five, with three as the goal. It has created some exciting moments. Who can forget Rocca's hole putt through the valley of sin or Sanders' missed putt, Seve's triple fist pump. Yet, those moments don't mean it is a great hole.
So is it the worst hole of championship golf?

I can’t think of another finishing hole in championship golf that I enjoy watching AND playing more than this one.  Maybe 18 at Pebble. 

[Greg Smith]

18 at TOC is one of the BEST closing holes in championship golf.  I don't care what the scoring average is or should be, or what it should be for an 18th hole.  Playing in to the town is a great way to conclude a championship round.  The hole also follows Pete Dye's idea of get 'em thinking, then you've got 'em.  A hole with few inputs (and/or very subtle inputs) often will get golfers to overthink the situation.  And when THAT happens with the pressure on, chaos can ensue!


The hole and its integration with St. Andrews is a poetic touch presented in the perfect context.  Its nature only enhances the most important course in golf history.  This hole must also be one of the rare places where (historic) golf architecture and (historic) urban architecture intimately interface on a large scale.

[Thomas Dai]

I wonder how much lower amateur players handicaps would be if they were able to drive 2-3 par-4’s per round and be playing pitches or short irons as their approach shots on a few other holes?
Atb

Go play a par 72 course with a course rating of 68.0 and see if your handicap goes up or down.

I suggest the point is being missed.
Atb

[Tim Martin]

Bethpage Black

[James Brown]

I wonder how much lower amateur players handicaps would be if they were able to drive 2-3 par-4’s per round and be playing pitches or short irons as their approach shots on a few other holes?
Atb

Go play a par 72 course with a course rating of 68.0 and see if your handicap goes up or down.

I suggest the point is being missed.
Atb

I don’t think so.  It’s been my experience that if you look at the course rating for a course with a lot of short par 4s, it will be much lower that you would think it might be and you will actually find it harder to lower your handicap on such a course. 


What I think gets missed in this discussion about how many holes at TOC create situations where the pros are hitting shots to greens from less than 50 yards is that it obscures the reality that the top pros are not shooting these scores just because they are long, the are also unbelievable good from that distance compared to amateurs, quite a bit more so in handicap terms than they are off the tee. 


Have a 10 handicap golfer take over Rory’s ball after the tee shot and guess what score he would shoot around TOC today? 

[John Kavanaugh]

I thought the 18th at Kingsbarns was the worst finishing hole I have ever played. Championship or not.

[SL_Solow]

Of course one of the reasons that they are touring pros is that they can hit the ball further and straighter than those of us with handicaps.  For those few who are that long, the reason that they are not on tour is because the pros have extraordinary short games.  This reminds me of the folks who used to say they could score like Chamberlain or Jabbar if only they were that close to the basket.  There is a lot more to shooting these scores than playing a course that is "too short".  Watching these players dealing with firm and fast conditions is instructive and makes the architecture come alive.

[Rob Marshall]

 Not sure the two leaders two putting for birdie makes for a great finish but since I’ve never played it I’ll leave it to the guys who have. That said I watched the leaders play all 18 holes today and it was great golf. Loved every minute of it and makes me want to jump on a plane.


Rooting for Rory but the two Cameron’s, or Victor would be great Champions. Looking forward to tomorrow.

[Sean_A]

There have been 7 eagles on #9 today.  Average score is 20 strokes over 3.0 for 83 players.  Say 3.24.


The average score on #11 is 33 strokes over 3.0 for 83 players.  That's about 3.39.


Right now, hole #18 is 33 strokes over 3.0 for 77 players, so 3.43.  Two eagles.

Thank you. To me these numbers are fantastic.

Ciao

[Alex Miller]

Setting aside, I can't imagine considering 350 yards of amazing links undulations being in consideration for worst hole of anything. Bethpage seems like a decent possibility, good shout Tim.

[Tim_Cronin]

Prior to its 1986 renovation, a strong nomination could be made for the 18th on Medinah No. 3. A hard dogleg right through the forest and the corner closer to the tee than the green, plus in-property out-of-bounds to the right.


Dave Marr said you had to hit a dive slice to hit the fairway. Frank Hannigan ran the USGA then and said the US Open wouldn’t come back unless the hole was changed.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I think of 17&18 as the finishers. Anyone who finds himself on the 17th tee one shot behind will be hard pressed to take 7 strokes on the last two to tie. If he does he deserves the tie.

[John Kirk]

So far this morning/afternoon, 27 players have posted a score of 47 under par.  Average total score is 70.26.

[Niall C]

Forget the par of the hole. It's a hole that realistically has a fair spread of 2 shots. For these guys they need to do something stupid to take more then 4 but a 3 isn't a given but on the other hand a 2 is a distinct possibility. I'm typing this as Smith and Young are playing the 16th and it looks like the 18th could be pivotal. What could be better ?


Niall

[V. Kmetz]

Not entering the fray of better or worse. but did anyone/everyone see DJ's head-up toe shank whizzer that nearly hit Swilcan Bridge...usually if done on a Sunday by a player in the hunt would (rightfully, imo) dismantle that player's chances...at this hole, in this competition everyone gets a shortish putt at 3.


I'd love the hole, would love to play it a hundred times, fine, unique, uncommon... like the divorced condo milf or two I enjoyed in my youth. Wouldn't want to see them in Playboy and don't expect to see them in Vogue either.