[Tommy Williamsen]

My bishop has thought that for years, but I wasn't thinking theologically. I like the color green most places. There I said it. I have played brown links courses that I loved. One of my favorite days was spent on a brown Saunton East. The brown at Delamere Forest is beautiful. That said; at the regular parkland courses where I play, I like green. When they turn brown we get lousy lies and tend to lose grass. I know brown grass is supposed to be dormant grass, but it doesn't always seem to work out that way. Often brown grass ends up dead. Where is the dividing line between dormant and dead?  Some of the bent up north in the fairways just like water.


So, I am ready for a heresy trial, just don't burn me at the stake.

[Sean_A]

My bishop has thought that for years, but I wasn't thinking theologically. I like the color green most places. There I said it. I have played brown links courses that I loved. One of my favorite days was spent on a brown Saunton East. The brown at Delamere Forest is beautiful. That said; at the regular parkland courses where I play, I like green. When they turn brown we get lousy lies and tend to lose grass. I know brown grass is supposed to be dormant grass, but it doesn't always seem to work out that way. Often brown grass ends up dead. Where is the dividing line between dormant and dead?  Some of the bent up north in the fairways just like water.


So, I am ready for a heresy trial, just don't burn me at the stake.

Tommy

I am not bothered about the colour of the grass. I want the grass to be as firm as is reasonable for the grass type and climate....limit the stress on the grass. That approach should see me play on all sorts of turf thru the year which reflects the idea that golf is an outside game.

Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

Tommy:


On northern parkland courses, there is a lot of Poa annua - translation, "annual bluegrass" - which is an annual.  Its nature is to die from drought stress but regenerate through new seeds -- that's why its seedheads pop up even at low cutting heights.  It knows its fate.


The way to keep Poa annua from taking over is to stress it out so it dies every summer and better grasses take over.  But, if you get too much of it in the mix, killing the Poa might mean losing your job as superintendent.  Therefore many golf courses "manage for the Poa" and water to keep it alive, so you won't have the reaction that you did.


Bentgrass [to a degree] and fine fescue can go dormant during a drought and come back strong.  So can bermudagrass in the south.  But Poa annua doesn't do dormancy -- it just dies.

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[JESII]

Hi Tommy,


Read this Interview from Linc Roden that touches on some what can help the brown grass become dormant as opposed to dead.


https://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/lincoln-roden-december-2001


I suspect the Scott Anderson Interviews from Aug/Sep 2005 will also be enlightening.

[Jeff_Brauer]

I worked one summer at a course where the super browned himself out of a job by trying to stress out the poa, just on the principle of it.


I think most golfers are like Tommy, and like green, hate "nuked green" (for cost and aesthetic reasons.)  My only regret is that the idea of "some browning" in August has gone away.  I always liked the sort of seasons of summer, from lush in April to brown in August, back to some green in September and October.

[Peter Pallotta]

Maybe Tommy is not so much a heretic as he is a Gnostic. And he knows what millions of average golfers intuit but rarely put into words, ie that certain types of golf courses/designs in certain places during certain times of the season were meant to be green, and they best fulfill their function and most play as originally intended with grass that is green.
Most of us forget that, in part because Ran (Constantine-like) has made 'brown' and its related orthodoxy the state religion!

[Brad Lawrence]

I know a lot about playing the game but almost nothing about growing grass. Thus, I don’t want any water put onto a course.  The more brown, the faster, the firmer, the better. 

[Kalen Braley]

I would think it doesn't have to be an "either or" scenario.  I've seen plenty of courses with great summer conditions of well-blended green, light green and light brown sections and figured overall they were healthier, but I'm not sure on that.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I was a member at two clubs outside DC. One used Declaration bent on the fairways and the other L93. L93 could go a combination of brown and green and do ok. Most of the members like the green/brown tinge. It was a golf club.
The other club was a country club and the Declaration did very poorly without a lot of water. The super pulled his hair out. It was always green and wet.

I am aware of Poa and its life span, and most greens up north have a bunch of it. I will watch it go from seed heads to nice surface. TD, you're right very most courses I know try to keep it. It is a dilemma for every super. I feel for all of them. They just can't please everyone.


Peter, I don't know enough to be a gnostic and certainly only have enough knowledge to get myself in trouble.

[Thomas Dai]

To me golf is a seasonal game governed by nature and is usually best when the hand of man is kept to a minimum.
Hence I’m in favour of nature determining whether (weather) golfers can or cannot play on any given day or season of the year and that nature ought to determine most aspects of course set-up and conditioning.
If nature determines that course conditions change so be it. There’s no divine right IMO to expect to be able to play 365 days per year. 365 days per year is the icing sugar on the cherry on the cake.
There is an exception to this though and that’s the greens where IMO it’s okay for the hand of man to intervene but only to the extent that putting surfaces roll true whilst remaining firm. There is also an exception for the hand of man to intervene to remove or cut back vegetation that would otherwise adversely interfere with golfing experience.
Atb


PS - knowing how much Tommy likes Westward Ho let’s him off being a green heretic IMO!

[Jeff_Brauer]

I prefer supers use the "checkbook" method of irrigation, i.e., the old guys walked on the grass and if it left a footprint, they started up the sprinklers.


In technical terms, every soil has a field moisture capacity.  Every grass can stay green down to perhaps 50% of the total water capacity is still present.  They brown and go dormant somewhere less than 50%, and some die at 25% of field capacity being present.  However, some courses like consistency, so they insist the superintendent water every day, perhaps only 0.2", rather than let it go a bit dry and filling up the tank, so that is what they do.  For clay soils, that capacity might be 1", so in theory, when evaporation is 0.25" per day, a super could in theory water every other day at most, but it would have to run longer.

I have run simulations, and every time, watering when needed my measuring field moisture comes up big in the water savings dept, at the expense of fw and rough being brown at some point.  But many courses prefer consistent conditions, as long as they have access to the water.

As to bent fw, I have had two bent fw courses lose parts of their water permits, and they actually did quite well on limited water.

[Tom_Doak]

However, some courses like consistency, so they insist the superintendent water every day, perhaps only 0.2", rather than let it go a bit dry and filling up the tank, so that is what they do.  For clay soils, that capacity might be 1", so in theory, when evaporation is 0.25" per day, a super could in theory water every other day at most, but it would have to run longer.

By contrast, when I was living in St. Andrews during a drought and it got to the point of needing to water, Walter Woods sent out a guy every night for a week to flood one or two greens, and get the profile saturated again.  The conditions would have been inconsistent across the course for a few days, but that was a great way to encourage a deep root structure!


A couple of Bill Coore's crew are in New Zealand right now, and I got a note from one of them last week about playing some of the local courses I had recommended, and how crazy cheap golf can be down there.  The reason is that, apart from the handful of very well funded courses in the country, the vast majority have no irrigation system except for greens.  When it gets droughty, they turn yellow!  But as a result, they have established grass that can live under such a regime, and without excess water, they don't have many problems with disease etc.  We all say that the climate in North America is too extreme to go to such drastic measures, but it's not really that much different than N.Z.


Likewise, we are working right now at Dornick Hills in Oklahoma, which still has mostly common bermuda in the fairways.  The greenkeeper turned the water OFF this spring to dry up the course in advance of taking on heavy equipment, yet during my visit, the fairways looked as green as ever, thanks to a little rain the week before, and to not cutting the grass quite so low.  I don't think people understand how much the search for "better" conditions really costs.

[jeffwarne]

Likewise, we are working right now at Dornick Hills in Oklahoma, which still has mostly common bermuda in the fairways.  The greenkeeper turned the water OFF this spring to dry up the course in advance of taking on heavy equipment, yet during my visit, the fairways looked as green as ever, thanks to a little rain the week before, and to not cutting the grass quite so low.  I don't think people understand how much the search for "better" conditions really costs.

I thought I was the only fan of common bermuda in fairways.

[Peter Pallotta]

Many years ago now, Joe Hancock wrote an article for one of the quality golf-architecture periodicals (I forget which one) about his low-input-deep-roots-maintenance regime at the course he owned & operated in Michigan, ie how over time (and with very stringent limits/control re water) he got the grass to be virtually indestructible & drought-resistant and the 'turf' to be as ideal for golf as it can be in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I played Joe's course back then, and the proof/validity of his approach was evident: the healthiest & most natural looking grass I'd even played a round of golf on.
I hope Joe or the publisher of his article sees this and can post some thoughts.

[Kyle Harris]

Soils matter.

Some places can tolerate the brown drought/heat dormant look because the soil holes enough moisture/nutrient to keep the plant alive until such time that irrigation or rain can intervene.

Other soils, you get maybe two hours of healthy dormant and then you get slow, agonizing, death.


So heretic? Nah. Grass wants to be green. The support network determines its tolerance.

Just like people.

[Steve Lang]

Many years ago now, Joe Hancock wrote an article for one of the quality golf-architecture periodicals (I forget which one) about his low-input-deep-roots-maintenance regime at the course he owned & operated in Michigan, ie how over time (and with very stringent limits/control re water) he got the grass to be virtually indestructible & drought-resistant and the 'turf' to be as ideal for golf as it can be in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I played Joe's course back then, and the proof/validity of his approach was evident: the healthiest & most natural looking grass I'd even played a round of golf on.
I hope Joe or the publisher of his article sees this and can post some thoughts.

Joe was also concerned with the well water quality, being pretty much saturated with gypsum from the old mines beneath the site, didn't want the course to get plastered!

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