[Adrian_Stiff]

Why is this numbering of the holes not better than the present config?


Same holes but.


Front 9: 12-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11
Back 9: 1-2-3-13-14-15-16-17-18


https://www.bandondunesgolf.com/golf/golf-courses/sheep-ranch

[Tom_Doak]

Why do you think that's any better?


My guess for why it is the way it is, is that they liked #1 as #1, and liked using the point early in the round and then late in the round.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Great thread, Adrian.


You might just add in 13 after the 3rd (you left it out in your above question).


I don’t know the course at all but it seems you are asking what about the actual sequencing is so superior to your proposed sequencing that it trumped the opportunity to have returning nines?


I’m sure there is a good answer but be interested to hear from those that know the course. Returning nines for this course is probably not a huge advantage right enough...

[Adrian_Stiff]

Why do you think that's any better?


My guess for why it is the way it is, is that they liked #1 as #1, and liked using the point early in the round and then late in the round.

Tom - I don't actually know it is. I am asking the question really, what would you have done? I have not been so am looking purely from an aerial, there could be a very good reason why they configured the routing that way. The advantage mine had was merely two loops of nine holes. The nines could be flipped so the current 1st remained the opener.

[Ryan Farrow]

The sequence of holes was under debate for some time but this was Bill's original sequence and the hole numbers we worked with from day 1 of construction, which is not always the case. I think everyone liked the flow of inland holes and clifftop holes in the current routing routing as Tom mentioned, I assume that was the overriding factor. The resort has a par 3 course and putting course so I'm not sure of the benefit of returning 9's. If someone wants to squeeze in a few extra holes at The Sheep Ranch they can play 1-11  or a mix of holes finishing at 13 green or 18 (about 7 or 8 holes). Bandon does not have a 9 hole rate that I am aware of but I could be wrong on that.


In my opinion, the best sequence of holes from a pure playing aspect won out.

[Dan Gallaway]

The current routing spans the entire property from N to S on the opening 9, the spans the entire property from S to N on the return 9.  There are several alternate routings that could seemlessly be used, but none that jumps out as having this same element.

[Tom_Doak]

Adrian:


We had the same question at Pacific Dunes, actually.  I came up with the routing as it is presently numbered, modifying it from a previous version.  It returns to the clubhouse at the 7th hole rather than the 9th, and most of the par-3's and par-5's fall on the back nine.


When I realized the latter, I volunteered that we could renumber the holes to get back to the clubhouse at the 9th:


1-2-3-13-14-15-16-17-18 for one nine, and 8-9-10-11-12-4-5-6-7 for the other nine


But that wasn't perfect either, as you either had the second nine listed go first [with the back to back par-3's close to the start], or a long walk from 18 to 8 at the turn.


We had just walked the routing in the sequence it was designed and everyone loved it, so the notion of renumbering was put to bed on the spot.  Our client was quicker in making decisions back then when he felt strongly about something.

[Thomas Dai]

I’m pretty sure there was a podcast or video interview with Bill Coore wherein he explained in some detail how the routing and hole numbering had come about. I believe it was all about how frequently he could get tees/green near the clifftop ‘point’ feature. I did have a quick search for the interview without success .... these days there are so many it’s hard to track down the episode in question.
Atb

[Sven Nilsen]

Front 9: 12-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11
Back 9: 1-2-3-13-14-15-16-17-18

In your configuration you would have perhaps the four hardest holes on the course right off the bat. 


Right now the course opens with a few easier holes to ease you in before you get to the 4/5/6 run.  You get a breather from 7 to 9, before ramping up again on the 10-13 run.  The current closing stretch of 15 to 18 plays fairly benign, and even more so in the winter when 15 and 17 can be drivable.


In the summer, there's something kind of nice about not having to fight directly into the wind until you get to 10.  You kind of get blown down the course to the 9th, before having to confront the breeze on 10 and 11.  Once you turn the corner back into it on 15, the length of the holes makes them less than overbearing.


If you're going to mess with the sequence, you could just switch your 9's so you still start on 1.  Most of the tough holes would show up on the back nine, with 11 being the natural closer that it should be.  Of course, if you do that you miss the denouement of 16 and 17 at the end of the round.


Sven

[Adrian_Stiff]

All good reasons. Thanks.

[Niall C]

The current routing spans the entire property from N to S on the opening 9, the spans the entire property from S to N on the return 9.  There are several alternate routings that could seemlessly be used, but none that jumps out as having this same element.

Why is that same element so important that you'd settle on this routing just because of it ?


Niall

[Dan Gallaway]

The current routing spans the entire property from N to S on the opening 9, the spans the entire property from S to N on the return 9.  There are several alternate routings that could seemlessly be used, but none that jumps out as having this same element.

Why is that same element so important that you'd settle on this routing just because of it ?


I guess I sort of like the idea of alternate routings being employed.  Never really thought about the drawbacks, aside from not being how the architect intended for the "story" to evolve and messing up the scorecard! 


My last trip down (May 2020) we could have experimented with alternate routings on the original four courses as the resort was at about 30% capacity (except Sheep Ranch, it was packed every day).









Niall

[William_G]

thanks Sven

[Brock Lynch]

Adrian:


We had the same question at Pacific Dunes, actually.  I came up with the routing as it is presently numbered, modifying it from a previous version.  It returns to the clubhouse at the 7th hole rather than the 9th, and most of the par-3's and par-5's fall on the back nine.


When I realized the latter, I volunteered that we could renumber the holes to get back to the clubhouse at the 9th:


1-2-3-13-14-15-16-17-18 for one nine, and 8-9-10-11-12-4-5-6-7 for the other nine


But that wasn't perfect either, as you either had the second nine listed go first [with the back to back par-3's close to the start], or a long walk from 18 to 8 at the turn.


We had just walked the routing in the sequence it was designed and everyone loved it, so the notion of renumbering was put to bed on the spot.  Our client was quicker in making decisions back then when he felt strongly about something.

Our last visit to Bandon included a late round on Pacific Dunes. It was going to be close as to whether or not we would finish. We played the following route to avoid a log jam at #5...  1 - 4, 12 - 18, 8 - 11, 5 - 7. Worked very well and we finished just after sunset.

[Will Spivey]

Adrian,


Great thread.


I played SR on my first trip to Bandon in November. I loved it. Rather than thinking of your question from a technical point of view, I'm reacting to it from a "user experience" point of view.


The first at Sheep Ranch isn't very complicated, but wow, what an intro to the course. From the tee you can see a ghost tree on the left edge of the fairway, introducing one theme of the course, then when you crest the ridge - boom! - everything unfolds beneath you to the south. You're walking along the high northern edge of the property, with a spectacular view south to the rest of the resort. The first green takes your breath away, then you turn back inland to play the second.


I also love capping that experience with 16 and 17 coming back to the first, capitalizing on the same amazing setting.

[Peter Flory]

Adrian:


We had the same question at Pacific Dunes, actually.  I came up with the routing as it is presently numbered, modifying it from a previous version.  It returns to the clubhouse at the 7th hole rather than the 9th, and most of the par-3's and par-5's fall on the back nine.


When I realized the latter, I volunteered that we could renumber the holes to get back to the clubhouse at the 9th:


1-2-3-13-14-15-16-17-18 for one nine, and 8-9-10-11-12-4-5-6-7 for the other nine


But that wasn't perfect either, as you either had the second nine listed go first [with the back to back par-3's close to the start], or a long walk from 18 to 8 at the turn.


We had just walked the routing in the sequence it was designed and everyone loved it, so the notion of renumbering was put to bed on the spot.  Our client was quicker in making decisions back then when he felt strongly about something.

Our last visit to Bandon included a late round on Pacific Dunes. It was going to be close as to whether or not we would finish. We played the following route to avoid a log jam at #5...  1 - 4, 12 - 18, 8 - 11, 5 - 7. Worked very well and we finished just after sunset.

Old Mac is my go-to twilight course there for this reason.  It usually clears out and you can get creative like that. 

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