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JC Urbina

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Revisited with a spin
« on: November 18, 2020, 11:12:32 PM »
Michael. H. posted a thread titled,


The New Gilded Age of Architecture, is appearance paramount?


I wanted to comment on that thread and take it in a different direction but decided to start another one instead.


 I did a interview for Ran on Golf Club Atlas that explored alternative thoughts on design and  at the end of my interview I listed a few of them, these had all been in the back of my mind for years and wanted to explore the possibilities.  When M.H talked about the Gilded Age that resparked my ideas which were included in my interview in 2002,  could we or did we need to explore a rebirth of ideas in new ways, the values of the golf course design and ways to entertain golfers on the "golf course".


So I mentioned a few items for further discussion.


A Bunker for all players.
Triangle golf
The Great Equalizer
Perfect Yardage
Base Camp Golf
and recently I have thrown out newer thoughts,  a golf hole within an existing hole,  what if you had 21 or 22 holes instead of 18, etc These were all ideas that maybe could take golf as we know it in a new direction as an alternative or if it needed to be reimagined.


I thought, how could I find a owner that would be willing to try out these unconventional ideas on the golfing public or would a time come that these ideas could come to fruition by necessity?


I have a scorecard of a golf course that plays in the round, another novel idea.  you start on the outer edge and play your way into the middle of the circle the last hole plays its way out to the edge, a great way to maximize a circle and easy to irrigate overnight.


While recently my dream bubble was busted when after listening to Derek Duncan - Feed The Ball and his guest Donald Steele.  I found out that he had already designed 2 years after my interview on GCA  a golf course,  I described as Base Camp Golf.  If you have a moment listen to Derek's podcast with Mr. Steele.  The golf course is in the Canary Islands and its called Tecina Golf.  The golf course starts at the top of the property and decends down to the bottom of the property and finishes at the resort on edge of the bluff overlooking the ocean.  A shuttle takes you from the bottom where you check in and you accend to the top where you tee off.  The golf course decends almost 600 feet to the 18th green.  I really want to see my dream golf course and play it but it's a long way from anywhere. so I may never have a chance to experience it.


Donald Steele had the chance to try something different. But will it become the norm someday?  Will the Gilded Age ever come back again to golf course architecture and or should it??


Is it only perceived appearance now or are we on the edge of something completely new and exciting?








If someone could post a link to Dereks Podcast  Feed The Ball with Mr Steele  that would be great, I don't know how to do that.






 







« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 11:22:46 PM by JC Urbina »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Revisited with a spin
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2020, 11:31:48 PM »
How ironic.  I played Tecina a couple of years ago, as one of the courses for the last volume of The Confidential Guide, whenever that gets finished.


They shuttle you to the top of the hill and you slalom down from there.  [And that's after you take a long ferry ride to get to the island, and a scary bus ride up and down steep hills to get to the course.] It is steeper, but exactly the same concept as the two courses at Boyne Mountain in Michigan, which were built long before.  That was where I got the idea it would be kosher to do the same at Black Forest, which was also built a decade before our conversation about the idea, on the car ride from Pinon Hills to Apache Stronghold many years ago.


That project I'm working on up in northern California is probably the ultimate version of the idea -- there will be a clubhouse at the beginning, the middle, and the end, and I honestly think many golfers will play the front nine one day and then stop and play the back nine the next.  It will certainly be easier to get to than the Canary Islands, anyway.   :D
« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 11:41:46 PM by Tom_Doak »

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Revisited with a spin
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2020, 11:33:49 PM »
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Peter Pallotta

Re: Revisited with a spin
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2020, 12:50:19 AM »
Where you’ve taken this topic, JC, and the examples you and Tom share, and the directions you point to: all valid, of course, and because you’re leaders in the field of golf design and construction a telling sign of what’s to come. And yet my first, heart-felt reaction to it all is one of melancholy and nostalgia:

it seems the end is nearing for the kinds of golf courses that once so lifted my spirit and fired my imagination, some 20 years before I’d ever paid a green fee or even hit my first golf shot, and almost 30 years before I’d fallen in love with the game.

I remember: there was an old stone town under a low grey sky, and its golf course there seemed to flow right into (and out of) the town itself: it too was old and laying low as it gently weaved its way to the sea and meandered back, so naturally it seemed, inevitably even — as the rain falling from the grey skies nourished it and the winds that blew from the seas shaped it, and defined the game.

As a child in a far away city I first saw that golf course on television, so clearly such an integral part of that old stone town, and I saw a quiet gentle game that could be played (and played well) without any violence or rancour or pomp & circumstance. The golf course and the game seemed to me to go hand-in-hand -- you played the game by yourself and 'against' no one, and the golf course was simply itself, and unlike any other.

And I imagined what a joy it would be to wake up in that town and simply walk to that course, a bag over my shoulder as I waved to the milkman and stopped at the baker’s shop and paused to say a short prayer in front of the church before I stepped onto the first tee, in a grey mist under a low sky as the rain fell, with the wind from the sea in my face. As I said earlier, I'd never even played golf at that point in time, and wouldn't for many years to come -- but I could already sense the 'rightness' of it all, and the soul nourishing charms. 

Not a requiem for that place: the golf course and the town are still there, alive and well. But I think certainly a goodbye: a farewell to what as a child I once thought the game and its fields of play were all about — all that they possibly could be, or should be or that I needed or wanted them to be.

My limitations, JC, not yours or Tom's. But I saw a video here once of you sitting in the sand and using your hands to shape it, describing the process of green-building and design; and I must say that (in the context of the game and its courses) I 'understand' that JC a lot better than I do the one who mentions Base Camp Golf as an exciting new possibility. (Just as I 'understand' Tom "The Loop" Doak better than I do Tom "Maha Napa" Doak.) Again, my limits not yours.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 03:02:04 AM by Peter Pallotta »

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Revisited with a spin
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2020, 03:38:52 AM »
How ironic.  I played Tecina a couple of years ago, as one of the courses for the last volume of The Confidential Guide, whenever that gets finished.


They shuttle you to the top of the hill and you slalom down from there.  [And that's after you take a long ferry ride to get to the island, and a scary bus ride up and down steep hills to get to the course.] It is steeper, but exactly the same concept as the two courses at Boyne Mountain in Michigan, which were built long before.  That was where I got the idea it would be kosher to do the same at Black Forest, which was also built a decade before our conversation about the idea, on the car ride from Pinon Hills to Apache Stronghold many years ago.


That project I'm working on up in northern California is probably the ultimate version of the idea -- there will be a clubhouse at the beginning, the middle, and the end, and I honestly think many golfers will play the front nine one day and then stop and play the back nine the next.  It will certainly be easier to get to than the Canary Islands, anyway.   :D


That rather depends on where you live.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Revisited with a spin
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2020, 03:42:55 AM »
Pietro

I think of these ideas more as a way to cope with an existing property that has very restricted possibilities. Its designers doing their job.

Ciao

New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Revisited with a spin
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2020, 04:10:52 AM »
Here's the original Ran/Jim interview - https://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/jim-urbina-june-2002/


And here's the Donald Steel 'Feed The Ball' podcast discussion with Derek Duncan -https://feedtheball.com/donald-steel/


atb

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Revisited with a spin
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2020, 01:33:07 PM »
Michael. H. posted a thread titled,


The New Gilded Age of Architecture, is appearance paramount?


I wanted to comment on that thread and take it in a different direction but decided to start another one instead.


 I did a interview for Ran on Golf Club Atlas that explored alternative thoughts on design and  at the end of my interview I listed a few of them, these had all been in the back of my mind for years and wanted to explore the possibilities.  When M.H talked about the Gilded Age that resparked my ideas which were included in my interview in 2002,  could we or did we need to explore a rebirth of ideas in new ways, the values of the golf course design and ways to entertain golfers on the "golf course".


So I mentioned a few items for further discussion.


A Bunker for all players.
Triangle golf
The Great Equalizer
Perfect Yardage
Base Camp Golf
and recently I have thrown out newer thoughts,  a golf hole within an existing hole,  what if you had 21 or 22 holes instead of 18, etc These were all ideas that maybe could take golf as we know it in a new direction as an alternative or if it needed to be reimagined.


I thought, how could I find a owner that would be willing to try out these unconventional ideas on the golfing public or would a time come that these ideas could come to fruition by necessity?


I have a scorecard of a golf course that plays in the round, another novel idea.  you start on the outer edge and play your way into the middle of the circle the last hole plays its way out to the edge, a great way to maximize a circle and easy to irrigate overnight.


While recently my dream bubble was busted when after listening to Derek Duncan - Feed The Ball and his guest Donald Steele.  I found out that he had already designed 2 years after my interview on GCA  a golf course,  I described as Base Camp Golf.  If you have a moment listen to Derek's podcast with Mr. Steele.  The golf course is in the Canary Islands and its called Tecina Golf.  The golf course starts at the top of the property and decends down to the bottom of the property and finishes at the resort on edge of the bluff overlooking the ocean.  A shuttle takes you from the bottom where you check in and you accend to the top where you tee off.  The golf course decends almost 600 feet to the 18th green.  I really want to see my dream golf course and play it but it's a long way from anywhere. so I may never have a chance to experience it.


Donald Steele had the chance to try something different. But will it become the norm someday?  Will the Gilded Age ever come back again to golf course architecture and or should it??


Is it only perceived appearance now or are we on the edge of something completely new and exciting?








If someone could post a link to Dereks Podcast  Feed The Ball with Mr Steele  that would be great, I don't know how to do that.






 


Jim, you define Base Camp Golf. Can you do the same for some of your other ideas?


Thanks,


Ira

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Revisited with a spin
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2020, 04:22:54 PM »
I once had an idea to basically eliminate walking to save time.  Similar to top golf, with the tee in one location (or several, if busy) under a cover.
- Hit your tee ball, calculate distance to green,
- Move to a turf area down the row to hit an XXX yard approach to a green. 
    - If you miss, walk over to the chipping green (I guess there would have to be several to simulate every green on the course.)
    - If you make the green, go to putting surface and putt from same distance your shot was calculated to have missed the hole.
-Go back to main tee to play second hole in similar fashion.


Golfer could remain covered if rainy.  Golf course would be a big circle hitting out from a smaller circle inner teeing area.  No more walking/riding 250 yards to landing area for your tee shot.  Let tech do it, and then walk a few yards to hit your approach shot, etc.


While we would hate it, I can see it being a nice combo for casual golfers to save time and environmentalists to save space dedicated to golf.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Brian Ross

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Revisited with a spin
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2020, 04:40:52 PM »
I once had an idea to basically eliminate walking to save time.  Similar to top golf, with the tee in one location (or several, if busy) under a cover.
- Hit your tee ball, calculate distance to green,
- Move to a turf area down the row to hit an XXX yard approach to a green. 
    - If you miss, walk over to the chipping green (I guess there would have to be several to simulate every green on the course.)
    - If you make the green, go to putting surface and putt from same distance your shot was calculated to have missed the hole.
-Go back to main tee to play second hole in similar fashion.


Golfer could remain covered if rainy.  Golf course would be a big circle hitting out from a smaller circle inner teeing area.  No more walking/riding 250 yards to landing area for your tee shot.  Let tech do it, and then walk a few yards to hit your approach shot, etc.


While we would hate it, I can see it being a nice combo for casual golfers to save time and environmentalists to save space dedicated to golf.

Jeff,

I agree that's a pretty interesting concept. There's a couple trying to do something very similar to that right across the Parkway from Yale GC as we speak, though their plans will still involve nine "half holes" of maintained golf course (in essence, entire holes on par 3s but approach shots only on par 4s and 5s). They're calling it Nexus Hybrid Golf and the video in the link is pretty intriguing. Could definitely see something like this work in more urban areas.

https://youtu.be/W95T5jUNfVU
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 04:42:46 PM by Brian Ross »
Time is but the stream I go a-fishing in.

http://www.rossgolfarchitects.com

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Revisited with a spin
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2020, 06:07:55 PM »
I once had an idea to basically eliminate walking to save time.  Similar to top golf, with the tee in one location (or several, if busy) under a cover.
- Hit your tee ball, calculate distance to green,
- Move to a turf area down the row to hit an XXX yard approach to a green. 
    - If you miss, walk over to the chipping green (I guess there would have to be several to simulate every green on the course.)
    - If you make the green, go to putting surface and putt from same distance your shot was calculated to have missed the hole.
-Go back to main tee to play second hole in similar fashion.


Golfer could remain covered if rainy.  Golf course would be a big circle hitting out from a smaller circle inner teeing area.  No more walking/riding 250 yards to landing area for your tee shot.  Let tech do it, and then walk a few yards to hit your approach shot, etc.


While we would hate it, I can see it being a nice combo for casual golfers to save time and environmentalists to save space dedicated to golf.


Can you take this post down please?  If some environmental lobbyist sees it, you might kill off the construction of new courses entirely!


If you're going to go "target golf" route you might as well just play on a simulator.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Revisited with a spin
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2020, 06:41:48 PM »
If you're going to go "target golf" route you might as well just play on a simulator.


Does the typical golfer seek novelty, something unconventional, a surprise, or is he after 18 holes with variety, beauty, decent conditions, tranquility, a brief break from the responsibilities of life?


Did golf evolve from the rudimentary, mostly unmaintained fields in response to more discretionary income and improvements in the ball and equipment?  Or was it to satisfy the artistic demands of growing numbers of people coming to the game?  Perhaps keeping up with the Joneses had a little to do with it.


I was talking to a young man recently who is exploring a top-end simulator which will do a lot of what Jeff B describes over hundreds of courses on a high definition monitor.  He doesn't have time to play on a weekly basis and believes that he can keep a decent semblance of a game by spending as little as an hour two or three times per week.     

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Revisited with a spin
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2020, 06:50:37 PM »


Does the typical golfer seek novelty, something unconventional, a surprise, or is he after 18 holes with variety, beauty, decent conditions, tranquility, a brief break from the responsibilities of life?


Did golf evolve from the rudimentary, mostly unmaintained fields in response to more discretionary income and improvements in the ball and equipment?  Or was it to satisfy the artistic demands of growing numbers of people coming to the game?  Perhaps keeping up with the Joneses had a little to do with it.


I was talking to a young man recently who is exploring a top-end simulator which will do a lot of what Jeff B describes over hundreds of courses on a high definition monitor.  He doesn't have time to play on a weekly basis and believes that he can keep a decent semblance of a game by spending as little as an hour two or three times per week.   


Lou:


I'm not sure I understand your point.  I'm not against simulators -- they are fine if you're stuck indoors, or there's not a good course to play anywhere close.  But for me, half the point of golf is to get outdoors in beautiful surroundings, and for that contingent, a driving range that lets you post a score [as Jeff described] is no better than a simulator.

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Revisited with a spin
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2020, 07:10:30 PM »
When Telluride (Colorado ski resort) was first planned, Jack Snyder and I came up with a plan to have the course all downhill. We contacted a ski lift manufacturer and they said it would be possible to adapt a gondola lift (for summer) to have a "tray with a cage" that would transport golf carts to the top of the mountain.

Weiskopf got the job — the course is "traditional" and mostly at the base of the mountain. Oh well.

Later in my career I met the original developer of Telluride when he bought a course in Hawaii. Over several Mai Tais I explained his "loss" way back when. He was very apologetic at not giving us the chance, saying if he had known we presented such an idea he never would have let it go by.... Or, perhaps it was the Mai Tais that has me remembering it this way ??

Jim — I also would love to hear your thoughts expounded upon.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 07:12:06 PM by Forrest Richardson »
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Revisited with a spin
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2020, 07:11:56 PM »
Tom,


Two points:


1)  I am not sure that the creative, artistic needs of some in your profession are of major importance to most golfers.  Golf is a game of tradition and familiarity.  We in this DG appreciate some of the novelty and clever features.  I suspect that normal golfers are not looking for surprises or strategic challenges, but the things I noted.



2)  I am suggesting that simulators have a growing appeal and may have a net negative impact on green grass rounds played.  I am not big on simulators or modern technology, nor did I get a big kick from Top Golf.  Judging from everyone around me including some neighbors, Top Golf has legs.  Two couples we know have "memberships" at the local TG.  They seldom venture on a regular 18-hole golf course.  Another friend has a top of the line simulator and his wife tells me that she's going to institute a tee sheet so she can control who drops by for a round.

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Revisited with a spin
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2020, 07:13:52 PM »
Lou — The data on Top Golf is that it is driving more players to "real grass" courses that it is sucking the wind out of traditional players. NGF has been monitoring and studying this. And, we now see Top Golf getting into real grass properties. Good signs.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Peter Pallotta

Re: Revisited with a spin
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2020, 07:30:19 PM »
Pietro
I think of these ideas more as a way to cope with an existing property that has very restricted possibilities. Its designers doing their job.
Ciao
Sean - yes, that's true, and I agree. (Hence the reference to it being *my* issue/limitation, not theirs.) Architects will continue to design & build what they want, or what they like, or what they must, or what they need to, or what they believe they *have to* design and build in order to keep working and have successful careers.

JC and Tom and Forrest and Jeff etc will explore and actualize the new ideas/approaches they mentioned here -- and with that golf courses will change, and so too the game.

Hence my melancholy and nostalgia -- not theirs -- for the kind of golf courses and the kind of game I was once moved by and fell in love with.

Once upon a time a mere 100 acres of simple rumpled land was 'enough' -- and more than enough: to build a lovely golf course, to foster a wonderful game, and to satisfy untold thousands of golfers of all skill levels for more than a century.

I can see that 'time' disappearing right before my eyes. With a decade+ of dramatic 400 acre sites behind us and the spectre of Base Camp Golf ahead of us, those days are gone for good. And that makes me a bit sad. That's all.



« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 07:53:41 PM by Peter Pallotta »

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Revisited with a spin
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2020, 05:16:25 AM »
Pietro
I think of these ideas more as a way to cope with an existing property that has very restricted possibilities. Its designers doing their job.
Ciao
Sean - yes, that's true, and I agree. (Hence the reference to it being *my* issue/limitation, not theirs.) Architects will continue to design & build what they want, or what they like, or what they must, or what they need to, or what they believe they *have to* design and build in order to keep working and have successful careers.

JC and Tom and Forrest and Jeff etc will explore and actualize the new ideas/approaches they mentioned here -- and with that golf courses will change, and so too the game.

Hence my melancholy and nostalgia -- not theirs -- for the kind of golf courses and the kind of game I was once moved by and fell in love with.

Once upon a time a mere 100 acres of simple rumpled land was 'enough' -- and more than enough: to build a lovely golf course, to foster a wonderful game, and to satisfy untold thousands of golfers of all skill levels for more than a century.

I can see that 'time' disappearing right before my eyes. With a decade+ of dramatic 400 acre sites behind us and the spectre of Base Camp Golf ahead of us, those days are gone for good. And that makes me a bit sad. That's all.


Pietro


I understand you PoV.  I can only hope smaller footprint golf, hopefully in the form of less than 18 hole designs, is seen as viable by golfers in the very near future. I don't think there is a long term future for large footprint golf in any meaningful way in the established golf countries of the west. Although, as explained in my previous post, base camp golf to me is solving specific problems of a site to actually make the footprint of the course less impactful and cheaper to maintain. We can question if courses should be built on these unsuitable sites compared to traditional locations. But mountain golf using carts and costing a fair amount to build has been around for a while now. I see base camp golf as a logical evolution of mountain golf.


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Revisited with a spin
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2020, 08:03:17 AM »
It both bemuses and amuses me sometimes the desire of folks to hit a scientifically designed, technologically manufactured expensive small ball with a collection of scientifically designed, technologically manufactured expensive clubs around an enormous area of perfectly manicured machine maintained terrain whilst wearing scientifically designed, technologically manufactured expensive specialist clothing and footwear often whilst travelling around said enormous area of terrain in a powered vehicle.
Golf's a pretty simple ball and stick game really.
Indeed the other day some others and I hit some shots on a small parcel of not very well maintained land with balls like the one on the left rather than the one on the right .... and we still had fun.
Time to hide behind the sofa? :)
atb

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Revisited with a spin
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2020, 11:36:16 AM »
Well said Thomas.

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Revisited with a spin
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2020, 01:42:46 PM »
Thomas...ball on the left looks like sushi...yum.


If we run with technology and adaptation, do we risk losing forever, what has been for 400 years?
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

JC Urbina

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Revisited with a spin
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2020, 11:32:25 AM »
Peter,



All is not lost, I still drag my foot in the ground to show a greens edge, a bunker location or a fairway grassing line as I once learned from Pete Dye.  Computer aided images are a long way away for my design thoughts and as my Web Site says, when building golf courses.


"This sense of craftsmanship is not found in a pencil tip or on a computer keyboard"


I love the links lands of Scotland and Ireland where the game was founded and hope to show the world very soon what I have learned from those extended expeditions. 


Ira,


Sorry it took so long to reply, not sure how some of you find time to respond so quickly, been really busy.


A bunker for all players was derived from my thought that a one tee system is really what we needed to get back to and that 5 and 6 sets of tees were not always the answer.  What if the playing field was a series of random bunkers and that your objective was to steer your way around until you reached your final destination,  the green.  You could go left or right or even down the middle but each option presented a different challenge and one that required a different club.  You didn't need a 100 bunkers but a combination of bunkers and features to make it work. I came up with this idea while building The ASU Karsten Golf course for Pete.   The green complex would be the final capper in this theory, This idea still burns bright but will have to wait for the perfect opportunity,  it would work perfectly on a short course, 


I drew this idea up on a paper table covering  in a restuarant somewhere on one of many road trips across the USA.  It took up the whole table, had to remove the plates, salt and pepper shakers and everything that clutters a dining room table.   ;D


Should have folded it up and taken it with me.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 12:56:41 PM by JC Urbina »

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Revisited with a spin
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2020, 03:26:05 PM »
Love Design’s Origins course west of Panama City can play as a 10 holes par 3 or 6 regulation holes. When the course isn’t crowded I’ve effectively played 16 holes with two balls in less than 90 minutes.


Why not use one corridor for three holes to be played simultaneously: 1) a 400 yards par four; 2) a 200 yards par 3; and 3) a a 165 yards par 3. Three holes with 2 greens. Use one white and one yellow ball to make it simple.
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Revisited with a spin
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2020, 05:13:31 PM »
Imagination and open mindedness Ron. And it’s a mini-tennis ball to the left in the photo. Still fun to play or practice with in the right circumstances. Produces a splendid water trail if hit when wet! I’ve played with a pebble and a tree branch before. Doubt I’m the first to have done so nor probably will I be the last.
As to unusual routings/layouts, how about spokes of a wheel. Clubhouse in the middle. Three loops of six or even six loops of three branching away from the centre taking up three-quarters of the area. The other quarter being range, maintenance facility, car parking, entrance road etc.
Atb