[Brad Steven]

Guys -


I just wrapped up a few days in Kiawah including two rounds on the Ocean Course.  If I were to expand on what I love about the OC, it would be a lengthy post.  Suffice to say it is a Doak 10 in my book and second only to PV amongst the modest list of greats that I've played. 


But on to the reason for my post.  Having played it for the first time several years ago, I recall thinking that the OC played fast and firm and in fact, when asked by friends to compare Whistling Straits to the OC, I'd answer that the firmer, faster conditions at the OC made it a more authentic experience than WS which I found to be lusher, thicker and more like playing conditions in my native Ohio. 


Now, after playing it again twice, I don't think I can say that.  In fact, upon reflection, the thing I like least about the OC is the Paspalum.  As a low handicap player, I generally don't rely on the ground game much but do enjoy trying to be creative when opportunity presents and I found gauging the bounces you'd get off the aprons/greens surrounds next to impossible.  Putting through the aprons from 5 or 6 feet off was incredibly difficult.  When trying to land full shots short of the green to bounce into a front pin, especially when down wind (holes 5-13 for both rounds), the ball would, without fail, stop immediately where it landed.  Of course this could have been because the course was wetter than normal but really, it wasn't.  I found myself dialing in my numbers and flying the ball as far as possible to the target - not just because I could, but actually because the course rewarded it. 


I also found putting on the paspalum to be maddening.  They greens were slowish - 9.5 I'd say and they felt slower than that.  Of course the OC greens are beautifully contoured and they could play faster without any trouble but coming out of a hot summer, I'm sure the super was just being conservative.  In any case, I missed put after put that would "wobble" off line as the ball lost speed by the hole.  The greens "look" incredibly smooth but there was something random or whimsical about the way the ball would track as it slowed down - in fact, I'm not even sure I'd say "wobble" is the right way to describe.  Our caddies insisted there wasn't much grain so to speak, at least not that would affect reading of breaks, but i don't know how else to explain how oddly the ball tracked when it slowed. 


I know the paspalum is an excellent choice from a practicality standpoint and maybe if the greens were cut shorter, to run faster, they'd have been "truer" ... I don't know.  Just know that the golf course played vastly different than I remember. 

I'm also curious if any of the other coastal greats are predominantly paspalum? 

[John Handley]

I played the Ocean Course for the first time last week and overall, I really liked the course.  It was fun, playable and the wind wasn't too brutal.  What was brutal was the pace of play!  5.5 hours and the back 9 was over 3 hours.  Totally unacceptable even at a resort course.  While I liked the course, it is highly unlikely that I would ever go back.


We played Sweetens Cove, The Honors Course, The Ocean Course at Kiawah and Cherokee Plantation (3x).  The overall experience at the Ocean Course was our least favorite.  All four guys said we've checked that box.

[Rob Marshall]

The Creek course at Fiddlers Creek in Naples has paspalum greens. They always look great but ALWAYS put very slow. The starter loves to tell everyone they are a 10. I'm thinking of bringing a stimp next time I'm there to show him he's wrong.
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[/size]Only advantage I can think of is you can water them with salt water and they won't die. Hate them.[/color]

[JC Jones]

I miss the days on GCA when we could agree on very little but Kiawah Ocean being better than Sweetens Cove would certainly be one of those things.  Then again, we would also discuss architecture and not pace of play or instagram influence when discussing courses.


I've not played Ocean in the hot/summer months, mainly fall and winter.  In each case, I've found the paspalum to be great as far as playing firm and providing options with the greens being more complained about as too fast than too slow.  I'll defer to the supers on here to talk about if it needs to be kept longer in summer months for plant health.

[Brad Steven]

I miss the days on GCA when we could agree on very little but Kiawah Ocean being better than Sweetens Cove would certainly be one of those things.  Then again, we would also discuss architecture and not pace of play or instagram influence when discussing courses.


I've not played Ocean in the hot/summer months, mainly fall and winter.  In each case, I've found the paspalum to be great as far as playing firm and providing options with the greens being more complained about as too fast than too slow.  I'll defer to the supers on here to talk about if it needs to be kept longer in summer months for plant health.

To be clear, I love the architecture and design of the OC but I found it to play very different than I would have otherwise expected.  At least in my experience, the course offered less ground game and less green challenge than I'm thinking Mr. Dye would have intended and I'm just wondering if it's the paspalum. 

[Carl Nichols]

I played the Ocean Course on a spectacular late afternoon in March and had some but not all of this experience.  Unlike Brad's experience, the greens were quite fast and pretty true, although I did experience some of the wobble Brad describes, which I attributed to it being late in the day.  If they were bermuda greens, I would've said they had a decent amount of grain.  (No idea if paspalum has grain in the same way.)


What was the same for me as for Paul was that the fairway in front of many greens was quite soft--and much softer than the greens, making getting to front pins (especially downwind) really really hard.   Seemed like the "maintenance meld" wasn't quite right.

[Troy Miller]

Brad,


I agree with you on much of your assessment of the playing condition that the paspalum provides.  When it is aggressively growing in the summer months, speed and smoothness is extremely hard to achieve. As it goes dormant or semi dormant, not unlike some of the older dwarf bermudas, it really hits is stride and can be groomed to greater speed and smoothness.  I liken it to zoysia from a tee to green perspective, with the ball sitting up on a dense stand of grass, but it creates many of the same issues around the greens that led some (see East Lake) to transitioning from zoysia to bermuda for the immediate green surrounds to allow for more options and creativity on the ground. 


Other courses in the Lowcountry of SC include May River, and every other resort course on Kiawah. That list grows in number significantly in Florida, though I can't think of any particular examples.     


At Apes Hill Club in Barbados, we went wall to wall with Paspalum, despite having a large rain collecting reservoir for a good water source.


Ocean is a very special place for me, and I have a large collection of photos from 1990 that show the course in its original state, as entirely short grass and dunes. The contours around those greens and lines of play that forced flirtation with sparsely vegetated dunes made the place very exciting; not that the 91 Ryder Cup needed much help with drama  

[Adam Lawrence]

Troy is right imo. Most warm climate grasses are at their best, playability-wise, shortly after they go dormant. They aren't growing, but they're smooth, fast and typically a very firm surface.


The problem is, if your busy season is in the winter, you run a big risk if you try to put lots of traffic across a surface that isn't growing. The reason lots of warm weather winter courses overseed isn't solely so they look green and lush.

[Troy Miller]

I am pushing more and more for no overseed on my projects in coastal SC, as we continue to have mild winters and consequently experience a semi dormancy on the green surfaces.  Covers make for a good safety net to extreme temperatures, and the benefit of firmer, drier surfaces combats a lot of damage caused in the winter months from watering and preserve the interest around the greens.


For the record, Ocean was originally Bermuda fairways and greens (tifdwarf), and has gone through a few grassing iterations in 30 years.

[Brad Steven]

I am pushing more and more for no overseed on my projects in coastal SC, as we continue to have mild winters and consequently experience a semi dormancy on the green surfaces.  Covers make for a good safety net to extreme temperatures, and the benefit of firmer, drier surfaces combats a lot of damage caused in the winter months from watering and preserve the interest around the greens.


For the record, Ocean was originally Bermuda fairways and greens (tifdwarf), and has gone through a few grassing iterations in 30 years.

Thanks Troy - I think I played Ocean last time in mid-November, by then probably in at least a semi-dormant state which may account for my recollection that the course played faster.  I wonder if Pete Dye played a role in their decision to switch to paspalum and/or if he opined on how it changed the way the ground game plays.  The more I play Pete Dye courses the more I see his brilliance. 

[Troy Miller]

Pete was certainly involved in the early 2000s when the greens were changed the first time - I believe from Dwarf to Eagle.  At that time, some contours were changed with the thought in mind that the greens would potentially get faster.  There are some transitions between greens and surrounds that became less cohesive during this process - The left of 17 green comes to mind immediately.


The greens went to Paspalum later, though I don't remember the year. 


The numerous tweaks over the years have all been in the name of playability and getting "John Q. Public" around the course without (or maybe with minimal) bodily harm. There is perhaps double the amount of turf than what was originally in place in 1990. 


That being said, the course is still, in my opinion, Pete's best work. I love the way he described the difference in it and Whistling Straits - citing the static nature of the site at WS, and how Ocean was always meant to be in motion moving with the shifting sands and nature in a very organic way.       

[Jim Hoak]

I have played several Paspalum grass courses--mainly in Hawaii--, and I agree with you that its weakest part is the approaches--very uneven bounces, hard to putt through, very sticky, etc.  I find the same thing true with Zoysia grass courses.  In fact, here in Texas, I hear second-hand about Zoysia courses taking out their Zoysia approaches and replanting with old-fashioned Bermuda.
Paspalum and Zoysia both have advantages in terms of water-usage and winter play, but approaches are a weakness.  And having a seam of different grasses between the fairway and the approach is not ideal  But having to play though those approaches may make a different choice necessary.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Pete was certainly involved in the early 2000s when the greens were changed the first time - I believe from Dwarf to Eagle.  At that time, some contours were changed with the thought in mind that the greens would potentially get faster.  There are some transitions between greens and surrounds that became less cohesive during this process - The left of 17 green comes to mind immediately.


The greens went to Paspalum later, though I don't remember the year. 


The numerous tweaks over the years have all been in the name of playability and getting "John Q. Public" around the course without (or maybe with minimal) bodily harm. There is perhaps double the amount of turf than what was originally in place in 1990. 


That being said, the course is still, in my opinion, Pete's best work. I love the way he described the difference in it and Whistling Straits - citing the static nature of the site at WS, and how Ocean was always meant to be in motion moving with the shifting sands and nature in a very organic way.     

The greens went to paspalum in 2003 with a grassed called "OC03." The original version of TOC was tifdwarf greens & approaches, manage by George Fry.

[Anthony_Nysse]

I have played several Paspalum grass courses--mainly in Hawaii--, and I agree with you that its weakest part is the approaches--very uneven bounces, hard to putt through, very sticky, etc.  I find the same thing true with Zoysia grass courses.  In fact, here in Texas, I hear second-hand about Zoysia courses taking out their Zoysia approaches and replanting with old-fashioned Bermuda.
Paspalum and Zoysia both have advantages in terms of water-usage and winter play, but approaches are a weakness.  And having a seam of different grasses between the fairway and the approach is not ideal  But having to play though those approaches may make a different choice necessary.

East Lake is like you describe-zoysia fairway, bermudagrass approaches.

[Anthony_Nysse]

There is some information about the grassing, here-


https://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/the-ocean-course-at-kiawah-island-sc-usa/

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