Rear bunkers

[Tommy Williamsen]

I played Ballyhack yesterday and when I got to 8 looked at the rear bunker. It doesn't come into play very often but when the pin is in the back it does. Land it too far on the green and it will one hop into the bunker.
I guess many back bunkers don't get much play, other than a skulled chip etc. but sometimes they can stop a ball from being in a worse lie or water.
I don't think there should be many of them but a couple on a course adds some variation and excitement.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

One of the most useless bunkers I've ever seen is on the 14th hole at a course near my house:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Whispering+Woods+Golf+Club/@42.0411218,-80.1470117,162m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x88327c32e93cb0f9:0x511f4ecb64a762fe!8m2!3d42.0372303!4d-80.153433


It's about 20 yards over the back of a 190-yard par three.


I don't think I've seen or heard of anyone being in it in the ten+ years the course has been open.

[Tom_Doak]

One of my favorite holes at High Pointe was a short par-4 with a shelf at the back of the green and then a deep bunker behind it.  It only scared the people who knew it was there, but then it really scared them.  [It was deep enough that the professional nicknamed it "the Abandoned Well".]


I have not done another hole like that for a long time, but I'm looking for the right spot for it.

[Tommy Williamsen]

One of my favorite holes at High Pointe was a short par-4 with a shelf at the back of the green and then a deep bunker behind it.  It only scared the people who knew it was there, but then it really scared them.  [It was deep enough that the professional nicknamed it "the Abandoned Well".]


I have not done another hole like that for a long time, but I'm looking for the right spot for it.

I remember that bunker. I found it fascinating and terrifying.

[Tal Oz]

Tommy, the first course that popped into my head when thinking of rear bunkers was Chicago. I just counted a full 12 (!) holes have a back bunker (1,3,4,5,6,7,8,10,11,13,14,15) and the first time I played out there I saw my fair share.


Aside from places that have safety concerns where a back bunker may catch errant balls they can also serve as a backdrop a la 13 at Cypress. Lastly and I think most importantly they can be used as a deterrent especially at a members course where just knowing there's danger back there makes you question your club choice.

[JohnVDB]

The 5th hole at Pumpkin Ridge’s Witch Hollow course had three bunkers behind the green.  It is a 200 yard Par 3 with a pond in front.  Getting in those bunkers with a downhill lie and the water beyond was terrifying.


The bunker behind 12 at Augusta is Probably the most well known.

[Tim Fitz]

Tommy, the first course that popped into my head when thinking of rear bunkers was Chicago. I just counted a full 12 (!) holes have a back bunker (1,3,4,5,6,7,8,10,11,13,14,15) and the first time I played out there I saw my fair share

Could it be a Raynor thing?  I think Shoreacres has back bunkers on 11 holes (3,6,8,9,10,11,13,14,16,17,18).  Some of those are template holes, which explains the corresponding back bunker at CGC.

[Duncan Cheslett]

Dr MacKenzie is renowned for his use of back bunkers for visual effect. A great example is on the par 5 14th at Cavendish.


14 by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr

They were grassed over many years ago - probably soon after the course opened.

14b by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr

Expect to see these bunkers re-instated within the next year or two as part of our plans to restore the course as far as possible to the original. The general feeling within the club is that they would look fantastic, despite the likelihood that almost no-one would ever go in them! Thanks to Tommy Nac for the imagery.

The excess foliage behind this and the adjacent 5th green has already been removed in the year or so since this photo was taken.

14 Tommy by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr

[Sean_A]

Duncan

I don't think those bunkers look right if the front part of the green isn't restored.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

Rear bunkers (and sand generally) look nice in photos taken from the tee and the fairway and from drones and as courses and golf generally seems to becoming more and more about being photogenic will rear bunkers become the next architectural trend?
atb

[Ben Stephens]

One of my favorite holes at High Pointe was a short par-4 with a shelf at the back of the green and then a deep bunker behind it.  It only scared the people who knew it was there, but then it really scared them.  [It was deep enough that the professional nicknamed it "the Abandoned Well".]


I have not done another hole like that for a long time, but I'm looking for the right spot for it.

Tom,


Wasn't there a back bunker on the 17th hole at St Andrews Beach which is at least 15 to 20 yards of the rear edge of the green with short grass all the way to it.


Cheers
Ben

[Duncan Cheslett]

Duncan

I don't think those bunkers look right if the front part of the green isn't restored.

Ciao

Putting the greens back to their original size where practicable is on the agenda too.

[Duncan Cheslett]

Rear bunkers (and sand generally) look nice in photos taken from the tee and the fairway and from drones and as courses and golf generally seems to becoming more and more about being photogenic will rear bunkers become the next architectural trend?
atb

It is photographs and videos that sell courses to potential punters.


Anything that makes a course look more attractive in publicity material makes commercial sense, as long as it is sustainable.


Golf clubs are in the entertainment business, after all.

[Adam Lawrence]

Rear bunkers are something I really associate with Dr MacKenzie. Colt, for example, almost never used them. I agree with Dai that they're mostly eye candy, though in certain cases they can be 'saving' bunkers and they do sometimes protect a back pin effectively. Rees Jones has an interesting theory, related to pin locations rather than bunkers, that the back pin is nowadays generally the hardest to access for top golfers, because of the amount of spin they impart.

[Sean_A]

Beyond the idea that rear bunkers often look odd, what bugs me most about rear bunkers designed to look cool is they play weird. The bunker face is facing the wrong direction if you get my meaning.  The result is often these little pitch out bunker shots...kind of a mealy mouthed shot. Why spend money to produce a shot like that? Grass works fine in this instance.  The best playing rear bunkers are those that can't really be seen, but then they have no or little visual impact.

Ciao

[Adam Lawrence]

I agree with Sean. Rear bunkers are either blind or above the level of the green. I hate downhill bunker shots.

[Thomas Dai]

Rear bunkers (and sand generally) look nice in photos taken from the tee and the fairway and from drones and as courses and golf generally seems to becoming more and more about being photogenic will rear bunkers become the next architectural trend?
atb

It is photographs and videos that sell courses to potential punters.
Anything that makes a course look more attractive in publicity material makes commercial sense, as long as it is sustainable.
Golf clubs are in the entertainment business, after all.

It might be possible to make a course look great in photos after restoration/reinstatement/new-build of rear bunkers but what is ultimately key is whether the club, any club, has got sufficient money to pay for enough staff to keep such bunkers in pristine condition in the long-run.
Bunker maintenance is high on manpower and without sufficient manpower to keep them looking pristine bunkers go shabby and scruffy pretty quickly and then they don't look so good in photos. And the more bunkers a course has, like when adding reinstated former rear bunkers, the more long-term manpower and thus money a club will require.
atb

[Adam Clayman]

I'm under the impression that rear bunkers are meant to either intimidate the long hitter or catch him being too aggressive. Since Dr. MacKenzie used them to great effect, one could postulate he disliked the modern long ball non-thinking golfer that was just beginning to crown out of the vagina of the Haskell.


The fact that downhill bunker shots put even the most accomplished in a spot of bother, there should be many many more of them.

[Jim Sherma]

Ones that work well have the back area of the green less receptive than the rest of the green - this adds more risk and also makes the ensuing recovery more playable. This for not mean front to back run off but simply flatter and less accommodating. I also think firmness is very important to make these types of rear bunkered greens work well. Then again I think architectural interest and firmness is necessarily intertwined.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Adam, Sean,


No doubt it is harder to design meaningful rear bunkers. But they neither have to be above the level of the green nor blind if there is enough scale / space to the backing hill / mound along with the right gradient to bring the sand flash up high enough. Definitely brings a few more variables in to the equation with construction though. They end up being quite big.


I think they can play their part in strategy also, particularly on a shallow green with a front left, back right combo (or vice versa).


Occasionally they can really add to aesthetics.


Still, all those things needing to come together (along with tendency for most golfers to rarely go long) usually means they are best used sparingly. Best applied in firm conditions for sure.

[Tom_Doak]

I agree with Sean. Rear bunkers are either blind or above the level of the green. I hate downhill bunker shots.

Generally true, and so what?  Are you making rules about whether a bunker can be blind, or that a downhill bunker shot is unfair?  You know better than to do that.  For one thing, having worked for Pete Dye, I've been encouraged to do more of anything a golfer complains about!


I have seldom imitated the MacKenzie bunkers behind greens in my own work because I don't think they come into play very often.  But as I described above, having a bunker in back on a hole where you're trying to get to a back shelf of the green is an interesting problem, and the fact that it was blind did not bother me at all.  That's the only way you're going to get a deep bunker behind a green.


Ben, you are right about the 17th at St. Andrews Beach.  There is a hollow off the back left of the green that's invisible to play, and we put short grass down into it, instead of having the native right up to the apron of the green . . . and then I ended the grass apron with a bunker.  The idea was that a guy going for the green in two with a long second shot might bounce away from the green and all the way to the bunker, while a shorter third shot would not get there.  Plus, you'd be able to find your ball in the bunker instead of trying to figure out where it went into the long grass where you couldn't see it.  But I can see how some people would find it gratuitous.

[Adam Lawrence]

I agree with Sean. Rear bunkers are either blind or above the level of the green. I hate downhill bunker shots.

Generally true, and so what?  Are you making rules about whether a bunker can be blind, or that a downhill bunker shot is unfair?  You know better than to do that.  For one thing, having worked for Pete Dye, I've been encouraged to do more of anything a golfer complains about!

Not unfair, fairness has no place in golf. But you know well that most architects and golfers would disapprove of a blind hazard, and I just hate how downhill bunker shots look and play. Subjective, of course, but what isn't?

[Simon Holt]

I'd like to know if a big back bunker over the 4th green at North Berwick would work.  It would be rare for the weaker player to ever go over the back chasing a pin on the top tier, but would allow for a skilled recovery for those that do.


It's maybe the only place on the course I'd be open to a bunker addition, rather than taking away some of the bunkers they introduced 10-20 years ago.

[Carl Rogers]

Personal experience informs me that Pacific Dunes hole 8, rear left bunker, quite blind and severly penal given the slope of the green back to the bunker.
When the pin is left, IMHO the only "smart" approach  shot is 15 yards short of the green leaving a putt from off the green.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I agree, a shot that makes folks uncomfortable is a big tool in the architects tool box. A downhill bunker shot to tight pin is a tough up and down. It is just the kind of shot an overly aggressive shot deserves.