[Tommy Williamsen]

I grew up on east coast parkland courses. I figured that tree-lined courses were the norm and gold standard. Anything different didn’t quite measure up. I remember playing some midwest courses that were built on farmland. They were poor excuses for courses because they were wide open, and "you could hit it anywhere and not be penalized."
Then I played Crystal Downs with its wild greens and different angles. I remember thinking, “Wow, this is really different, and I love it.
I loved watching the Open played on links courses. I didn’t quite “get it” but was fascinated by it. Then in 20 days I played 21 different links courses in GB&I. I was hooked and the difference between them and parkland courses informed and transformed my understanding of what good golf entails.
All my prejudices about what constitutes great golf changed.
What were your eye openers?

[Jon Wiggett]

Tommy,


I suppose I was lucky as growing up in the UK and Yorkshire in particular I had access to the full range of inland courses as a junior at affordable prices. From the tree lined municipal thorough moorland to the top end private heathland courses all accessible for a £1 day rover bus ticket and a greenfee of £2 or less.

[Ben Stephens]

Tommy,


I suppose I was lucky as growing up in the UK and Yorkshire in particular I had access to the full range of inland courses as a junior at affordable prices. From the tree lined municipal thorough moorland to the top end private heathland courses all accessible for a £1 day rover bus ticket and a greenfee of £2 or less.

Jon


Are you really showing your age??? 


The nearest comparison I have to this is playing Hazlehead No.1 in Aberdeen and it was £3.50 a round tin the early 1990's both my father and i were astounded by the golf course and what we paid for. The other is a three course meal at Carnoustie Golf Club in the mid 1990's was £5 - Scotch Broth followed by Fish and Chips and then Apple Crumble with Custard and Ice Cream. Oh those were the days!

This example shows that the cost of golf has really gone way above inflation and peoples earnings in relation haven't really increased at the same rate which is probably why the numbers playing the good old game is dwindling.


Cheers
Ben

[Jon Wiggett]

Ben,


yes often in the morning I do feel ancient 


Yorkshire in the 80's had the Yorkshire Junior Golfing Society which if you were a member of a golf club (as I was at Dewsbury for the princely sum of £18 in 1982) you could join for £2 for the year. This gave you access to most of the clubs in Yorkshire. Many such as Headingly, Crossland Heath, Ilkley etc were 50p but there were those such as Moortown or Ganton which cost £2 for the day. For £3 and 40 minutes on the bus me and my mates could spend the day playing Moortown where the stewardess used to serve us soup and sandwiches round the side of the clubhouse. One year we even got to help the greenkeepers clear out the balls from the trees at the end of the practice ground after the European Tour's Carcare Open had been there. Came away with 3 dozen perfect Titliest balatas for 30 minutes work.


Happy days   

[Ben Stephens]

Ben,


yes often in the morning I do feel ancient 


Yorkshire in the 80's had the Yorkshire Junior Golfing Society which if you were a member of a golf club (as I was at Dewsbury for the princely sum of £18 in 1982) you could join for £2 for the year. This gave you access to most of the clubs in Yorkshire. Many such as Headingly, Crossland Heath, Ilkley etc were 50p but there were those such as Moortown or Ganton which cost £2 for the day. For £3 and 40 minutes on the bus me and my mates could spend the day playing Moortown where the stewardess used to serve us soup and sandwiches round the side of the clubhouse. One year we even got to help the greenkeepers clear out the balls from the trees at the end of the practice ground after the European Tour's Carcare Open had been there. Came away with 3 dozen perfect Titliest balatas for 30 minutes work.


Happy days 

Great Story to tell GCA Jon! if Moortown and Ganton were £2 a day now the queues would be enormous! It seems that golf these days is more elitist than in the 1980's and 1990's when there was a boom in number of golf courses being built now it is in reverse.

[Jon Wiggett]

Ben,


in the early to mid 80s courses were generally empty through the week. Course were generally very pro junior and this combination led to such schemes. If I remember correctly there was a limit on the number of times you could play one course but it was something like six times so no big restriction. I think the only course in the Leeds area not in the scheme was Alwoodley.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Ben,


I grew up on Hazlehead No.1, as well as the links.


Tommy,


The strange thing is, because our “norm” was links and average enough inland golf (no great heathlands like in England), the really exciting thing for us was when we started to get modern, American style, target golf designs. For a while, the more water hazards the better as we just didn’t have any water hazards on golf courses in Britain. Tree lined would beat non-tree lined. I joined Newmachar before it was built in 1989 and watched it through construction. For us, it was “modern golf”!


Whilst the links was always home, the above kind of courses (more water the better) remained as my preferred inland experience in to the early 2000’s. Only once I got heavily in to GCA and discovered that there were better types of inland course out there (e.g. heathlands) did my view start to change and my ideas properly meld.

[Ben Stephens]

Ben,


I grew up on Hazlehead No.1, as well as the links.


Tommy,


The strange thing is, because our “norm” was links and average enough inland golf (no great heathlands like in England), the really exciting thing for us was when we started to get modern, American style, target golf designs. For a while, the more water hazards the better as we just didn’t have any water hazards on golf courses in Britain. Tree lined would beat non-tree lined. I joined Newmachar before it was built in 1989 and watched it through construction. For us, it was “modern golf”!


Whilst the links was always home, the above kind of courses (more water the better) remained as my preferred inland experience in to the early 2000’s. Only once I got heavily in to GCA and discovered that there were better types of inland course out there (e.g. heathlands) did my view start to change and my ideas properly meld.

Hi Ally,


So what do you think of Hazlehead No.1 and did it inspire you to go into GCA? How many changes have they made since you played it first? How much of Mackenzie's work is left?


Cheers
Ben

[Ally Mcintosh]

Ben,


I’ve played Hazlehead 1 more than any course on the planet. It was my “home” club from age 7 to 16 and my entire summer holidays would be there and a bit of Royal Aberdeen.


I’d love to know what MacKenzie’s original design / greens etc looked like before they flattened it. Because there are clearly more interesting holes here than on many other courses. Always had a drainage problem though.


It didn’t really influence my love of golf courses. I think with most people, that’s just a wiring thing. Right from the start, I liked to see as many new courses as possible, keeping a map with colour coded stickers identifying location and rating. I still have a lot of my old imaginary sketches of made-up courses from age 11-13.

[Tom_Doak]

I had already seen all the best courses in America and in GB & I, but my first trip to the Sand Belt was an eye-opening expérience and it still is every time I go back there.

[Tommy Williamsen]

My first trip to the Sand Hills was eye popping. I had never experienced anything like it. The expanse and terrain was like nothing I had experienced. Unlike some, I thought it was completely different than links course. It might play linksy but the vistas and dunes are one of a kind.

[Jeff_Brauer]

More about "expanding my knowledge", but I have recently started buying all the Strakaline yardage books that have green contours shown in 1" increments.  (I bought some GreenSlopes books, too, but they are 3" contours and do not seem to be done with the same accuracy.


My basic aim was to see how my own greens are contoured, and see how a few other big names differ in their philosophies.  I know we all fall in the trap of thinking everyone thinks the same way we do, which is not usually the case.


Probably no surprise, but Mr. Doak's green contours really stand out as being different from all the rest.  I haven't done a count of Rawls and Common Ground, but he is far more likely to put a hump in the first third of the green (presumably to influence a run up shot?) and have part and sometimes most of his greens drain somewhere off the back.


The other big surprise, my greens and others, was how many seem to drain entirely to the front, when they were probably designed to have some parts (usually the back) drain off to the side(s).  I have to check on those courses to see if they were built that way or if subsequent re-grassing (again, not feeling they should spend the money to call in their architect, and just using the grass company and it's tractor guy) were changed inadvertently.  I suspect the latter in many cases.  Or, maybe long term topdressing has affected more courses than Pinehurst no. 2.

[Mark Mammel]

I was lucky enough to spend a few weeks in the UK with a good friend back in 1977. This was a pilgrimage- we both found Herbert Warren Wind and Bernard Darwin as teenagers and were determined to see what golf in the UK was all about. St. Andrews opened out eyes quickly- first, because it was only L3.50 to play, and second, because it was NOTHING LIKE anything we had ever seen. We played with a local, who always set his small bag on the greens and encouraged us to do likewise since many were so large and were incredibly firm. We moved on to Carnoustie, which at that time was in fairly rough shape but still was the turf that Hogan walked. In fact, on the left side of 6, Hogan's Alley, there were signs on the out of bounds fence stating "DO NOT ATTEMPT TO RETRIEVE YOUR BALL. YOU MAY BE KILLED." Turns out that at that time there was an artillery range there.

We played many other wonderful venues in all kinds of weather and learned that golf as we had learned it wasn't golf over there. The pinnacle of the trip was the Open Championship at Turnberry, the famous duel in the sun.

After this experience, I understood far more about why courses in the US were laid out as they were, and also why the turf on which the game is played dictated so much of the experience of the game. I still think playing on the links is by far the most enjoyable and interesting golf one can play.

[David Ober]

My true "awakening" was this forum. I came on here years ago merely as someone who a) loved golf and; b) loved competing against the very best mid-ams and seniors in California. But I knew precious little about architecture.


That said, golf has always been more than just a game or "hobby" to me. Since I first took up the game at age 20, it has always been an absolute passion.

[David Wuthrich]

I guess it would be my first trip to Ireland and learning that yardage to the flag didn't matter, it was how you got there that did!

[Tommy Williamsen]

.

[John Emerson]

I grew up on east coast parkland courses. I figured that tree-lined courses were the norm and gold standard. Anything different didn’t quite measure up. I remember playing some midwest courses that were built on farmland. They were poor excuses for courses because they were wide open, and "you could hit it anywhere and not be penalized."
Then I played Crystal Downs with its wild greens and different angles. I remember thinking, “Wow, this is really different, and I love it.
I loved watching the Open played on links courses. I didn’t quite “get it” but was fascinated by it. Then in 20 days I played 21 different links courses in GB&I. I was hooked and the difference between them and parkland courses informed and transformed my understanding of what good golf entails.
All my prejudices about what constitutes great golf changed.
What were your eye openers?

I had some eye openers around the United States, Ross’ course at French Lick, Idle Hour, Pinehurst, Shoreacres, Harbour Town, Moraine, Camargo, Sweetens, Streamsong etc..but the true slap in the face wake up call was my trip to Scotland.  It absolutely ruined golf in USA for me.  I now find myself so turned ofF by the courses here.  I still play every week but the wind in my sails isn’t what it used to be.  I still have deep enjoyment in golf, but I’m constantly dreaming of my return to Scotland.  There’s links golf....then everything else.

[Matthew Rose]

Melbourne!

[Adam Clayman]

To opine that Sand Hills plays like a links course is just flat out inaccurate.


Reading the questions posed to Pete Dye in his feature interview on this site, was my Scooby Doo moment.

[Sean_A]

Growing up on a Ross course, from the time I was a teenager I knew there were big differences in course design, but I didn't know how or why. Playing the UM course solidified this impression a few years late. It wasn't until I played a few courses in the UK in 1991 that I really started to seek answers to questions. That first trip included Troon, Hoylake and Little Aston. From that point I started to buy books...

Ciao

[Ira Fishman]

My journey came in three stages over the past decade. We had pretty much stopped playing as our daughters grew up because unfortunately neither developed much of an interest in golf. When we started playing again, we also started traveling.


Stage One: Trips to the Greenbrier where I “discovered” CBM/Raynor and Mid Pines/Pine Needles which initiated our love of Ross (or maybe reinitiated—we honeymooned at the Broadmoor). It also was planning one of the trips that led me to this site and discussion board.


Stage Two: The guys trip to play the “famous” Irish courses (Old Head, Waterville, Ballybunion, Doonbeg, and Lahinch). The trip confirmed my suspicion that I would embrace Links golf, but also being disappointed in Old Head led me to think more carefully about architecture.


Stage Three: Our trip to the Highlands and Heathlands. Playing Brora and Golspie opened our eyes to looking beyond the big name courses which was reinforced the following year when we included Kilspindie, Elie, and Crail Balcomie and were not particularly disappointed that we failed to ballot onto TOC. On our trip to the Highlands, we flew to London to play Swinley Forest, St. George’s Hill, and Woking. Before spending time on Gca.com, I had no idea that the Heathlands even existed and what a treat and treasure all three courses were. My wife did find me a bit goofy blabbering on the 4th at Woking as if I actually knew what I was talking about.


It has been a wonderful journey for us with a second trip to Ireland, a week playing Pasatiempo, CPC, and the courses at Bandon, and trips last year to Pinehurst and Streamsong. The Pinehurst visit might qualify as Stage 4. We went there rather than our annual visit to MP/PN because my wife wanted to try it. I was not enthusiastic because I had played PH2 right after the 2005 US Open and was disappointed. We played it twice last year, and it immediately jumped into my personal Top 5. The impact of a restoration being that dramatic for me.


Stay safe!


Ira

[Michael Whitaker]

My eye opening moment came in 1980 when I visited Wild Dunes on the Isle of Palms near Charleston, SC. This was before Hurricane Hugo and the course played through a pristine maritime forest before transitioning to the oceanside holes. It was stunning! Before that visit I had only experienced the very mundane courses in my local area and the few (at that time) Myrtle Beach courses, which were uninspiring.


Wild Dunes shocked me visually and made me wonder if there were other exciting courses out there. It eventually led me to Yeamans Hall, which led me to GCA.com in the early 90’s.


The rest, as they say, is history.

[Tommy Williamsen]

My journey came in three stages over the past decade. We had pretty much stopped playing as our daughters grew up because unfortunately neither developed much of an interest in golf. When we started playing again, we also started traveling.

Stage Two: The guys trip to play the “famous” Irish courses (Old Head, Waterville, Ballybunion, Doonbeg, and Lahinch). The trip confirmed my suspicion that I would embrace Links golf, but also being disappointed in Old Head led me to think more carefully about architecture.

Stay safe!


Ira

Ira, I hear that folks come away from Old Head disappointed. What disappointed you?

[Ira Fishman]

My journey came in three stages over the past decade. We had pretty much stopped playing as our daughters grew up because unfortunately neither developed much of an interest in golf. When we started playing again, we also started traveling.

Stage Two: The guys trip to play the “famous” Irish courses (Old Head, Waterville, Ballybunion, Doonbeg, and Lahinch). The trip confirmed my suspicion that I would embrace Links golf, but also being disappointed in Old Head led me to think more carefully about architecture.

Stay safe!


Ira

Ira, I hear that folks come away from Old Head disappointed. What disappointed you?

I thought that the holes not on the cliffs were bland with quite a few awkward relatively sharp dog legs. 6-10 if memory serves and 18 come to mind. The holes on the cliffs are gorgeous, but even some of them less than compelling from a golf perspective. I particularly remember thinking that Number 17 not only did not reward a good shot but penalized some.


A couple of the architects have posted in other threads that there just is not enough acreage on the site to build a course to live up to the setting. That resonates with my experience of the course feeling forced in there.


Ira

[Evan Fleisher]

Probably first got the architecture "bug" back in 1991 when my father and I took a trip to look at grad schools I'd been accepted to. We ended up in Cooperstown, NY (where his childhood best friend lived) and played a round at the Leatherstocking Golf Course designed by Devereux Emmet in 1909.  I was fascinated by the style and variety of holes there, views of the lake and incorporation of the natural land movements across the property.  Being from Florida, this was an eye opening and exciting experience unlike anything I'd played before.


From that moment on, I was hooked!

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()