[Tommy Williamsen]

I am sorry to have begun so many threads, but my wife will not let me out of the house.
There are holes that are not in harmony, out of place, or just don’t seem to fit in with the rest of a golf course. A few examples might be:
18 at Royal New Kent. The water fronting the green seems out of place.
17 and 18 at Westward Ho! They are built on heavy ground and the water fronting the greens seem out of step with the rest of the course. Ten and eleven with the great sea rushes are dissimilar to anything else.
18 at High Point (NLE). The second shot is a surprise.
18 congressional. The second shot is the only one like it on the entire course.
5&6 at Inverness. Not sure what they are like now but when I first played there they seemed discordant.
17 at TOC. It has small green, a road, and you hit over a building.
17 at Royal County Down. The little pond seems out of place.
1 & 18 at Maidstone. They sure do not seem the same quality as the rest of the course although I think they have been changed recently.
Do they add interest to the course, or do they detract? I am pretty sure that the chorus,Ode an die Freude, in Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony was a surprise and I suspect some thought it incongruous in a symphony. It was the first symphony to use voices. It is now known as a choral symphony, the first of its kind and is one of the most celebrated symphonies ever composed.

So, do holes like the ones above add interest or do they detract from the experience?

[Jay Mickle]

The water fronting the green at The European Club looked too contrived to me.

[Tommy Williamsen]

The water fronting the green at The European Club looked too contrived to me.

Good point. The water on 18 is a surprise and one that Pat Ruddy did on purpose. Other than the sea, the the marsh to the right of 7, it is the only water feature on the course.

[Jeff Schley]

I am sorry to have begun so many threads, but my wife will not let me out of the house.
There are holes that are not in harmony, out of place, or just don’t seem to fit in with the rest of a golf course. A few examples might be:
18 at Royal New Kent. The water fronting the green seems out of place.
17 and 18 at Westward Ho! They are built on heavy ground and the water fronting the greens seem out of step with the rest of the course. Ten and eleven with the great sea rushes are dissimilar to anything else.
18 at High Point (NLE). The second shot is a surprise.
18 congressional. The second shot is the only one like it on the entire course.
5&6 at Inverness. Not sure what they are like now but when I first played there they seemed discordant.
17 at TOC. It has small green, a road, and you hit over a building.
17 at Royal County Down. The little pond seems out of place.
1 & 18 at Maidstone. They sure do not seem the same quality as the rest of the course although I think they have been changed recently.
Do they add interest to the course, or do they detract? I am pretty sure that the chorus,Ode an die Freude, in Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony was a surprise and I suspect some thought it incongruous in a symphony. It was the first symphony to use voices. It is now known as a choral symphony, the first of its kind and is one of the most celebrated symphonies ever composed.

So, do holes like the ones above add interest or do they detract from the experience?

For Maidstone I have a fond memory playing there on 18.  I remember walking to their range across what was 1/18 and back to tee off.  I liked the shared fairway.  One is a pretty easy downhill par 4 with 18 a much tough approach going uphill to a smaller green and exposed to wind.  I spray my drives and asked our host at 18 with our match even if I could play from the 1 fairway if I aimed leff of the trap on the left side of the fairway.  He said sure.  I hit a good one right where I aimed (amazingly) and had about 145 or so into a 15 mph wind coming pretty much right to left 45 degrees across the green from my approach.  I hit a low punch 8 and pulled it off to 20 feet and 2 putted.  Why do I remember this and bore everyone with details?  Because I rarely, if ever am able to have a plan and execute it on the golf course for even one hole so I was proud of this outlier on a splendid course.

[David_Tepper]

I have often thought that #12 at Augusta National doesn't quite "fit" with the rest of the course. The green there is rather small compared to all the other greens on the course. It also is flatter and has far less break compared to all the other greens.


That being said, it is a very good golf hole.

[Tom_Doak]

I have often thought that #12 at Augusta National doesn't quite "fit" with the rest of the course. The green there is rather small compared to all the other greens on the course. It also is flatter and has far less break compared to all the other greens.

Well, as we could see on a recent thread, today's green is very different from the original green, which had a good deal of movement.

[Peter Pallotta]

Tommy -
I can't add anything, except to say that I think you've (very usefully) approached the oft-discussed topic of 'quirk' from a new & interesting angle.
And that you (and others) have used famous examples from high-quality golf courses brings the question to an even finer point.   
Given my fairly limited playing experience, I'm not a big fan of quirk -- because on most of the courses I've played incongruous & discordant are the much better terms to describe what I've seen.
But with a broader perspective, the question still remains, i.e. how/why/when does a golf hole or feature (or unexpected/unusual chord in music) *break with* the integrity & continuity of the whole instead of *expanding* it?   
   

[Sean_A]

Tommy -
I can't add anything, except to say that I think you've (very usefully) approached the oft-discussed topic of 'quirk' from a new & interesting angle.
And that you (and others) have used famous examples from high-quality golf courses brings the question to an even finer point.   
Given my fairly limited playing experience, I'm not a big fan of quirk -- because on most of the courses I've played incongruous & discordant are the much better terms to describe what I've seen.
But with a broader perspective, the question still remains, i.e. how/why/when does a golf hole or feature (or unexpected/unusual chord in music) *break with* the integrity & continuity of the whole instead of *expanding* it?   

I hope to see something incongruous on every new course I see. Sometimes it's brilliant, sometimes not so much. On a good course it's something to bitch about and say what if. On a bad course its something to laugh about. Then there are the times when it works...magic...and maybe...the outstanding hole of the lot.

Ciao

[Tommy Williamsen]

Tommy -
I can't add anything, except to say that I think you've (very usefully) approached the oft-discussed topic of 'quirk' from a new & interesting angle.
And that you (and others) have used famous examples from high-quality golf courses brings the question to an even finer point.   
Given my fairly limited playing experience, I'm not a big fan of quirk -- because on most of the courses I've played incongruous & discordant are the much better terms to describe what I've seen.
But with a broader perspective, the question still remains, i.e. how/why/when does a golf hole or feature (or unexpected/unusual chord in music) *break with* the integrity & continuity of the whole instead of *expanding* it?   

I hope to see something incongruous on every new course I see. Sometimes it's brilliant, sometimes not so much. On a good course it's something to bitch about and say what if. On a bad course its something to laugh about. Then there are the times when it works...magic...and maybe...the outstanding hole of the lot.

Ciao

Yup. The biggest bright spots might just be the most discorant holes: 17 at TOC and 18 at Congressional.

[Thomas Dai]

Tommy,
Firstly please say thanks to your wife for keeping you indoors as you've started some splendid threads recently!
Secondly, you mention the 17th and 18th at Westward Ho! as examples of such features. I reckon you could probably add the 1st and 2nd holes at W-Ho! as well.
It's interesting that at quite a few out-n-back links courses, like W-Ho!, the opening and closing holes are on the flatter, perhaps to some, less interesting land. I imagine that in many such cases this is due to the flatter land being the closest area of suitable links nearest to the local town/village, particularly if a local pub/hotel was in the early days acting as a Clubhouse.
atb

PS - this recent article by Mike Clayton is well worth a read - https://www.golf.org.au/clayton-give-me-fun-over-fair/

[Ira Fishman]

Inland holes on links courses can be discordant, but still add great value to the course. 13-15 at Nairn do not fit in but they are wonderful holes (although the alterations on 14 and 15 I understand are for the worse). 8-9 at Golspie are also excellent.


In contrast, I found most of the inland holes at Castle Stuart pretty mediocre.


Ira

[Matt_Cohn]

The water fronting the green at The European Club looked too contrived to me.

What the?

[Tommy Williamsen]

A different view of 18. Still the most controversial hole on the course.

[Pete_Pittock]

Looks like an aquatic principals nose.

[Brock Lynch]

The water fronting the green at The European Club looked too contrived to me.

What the?

I wanted to play this course someday... this feature lessens that desire.

[Tommy Williamsen]

The water fronting the green at The European Club looked too contrived to me.

What the?

I wanted to play this course someday... this feature lessens that desire.

It's only one shot, and the last one at that. The course is just wonderful and stunningly beautiful.

[mike_beene]

Number 1 at TOC has always seemed out of place with the burn and flattish green. I don't feel comfortable saying that. Seems I don't have standing, as a human, to fault that beloved course.

[Jeff Schley]

The water fronting the green at The European Club looked too contrived to me.

What the?

I wanted to play this course someday... this feature lessens that desire.

It's only one shot, and the last one at that. The course is just wonderful and stunningly beautiful.

In terms of quirk how about the 127 deep green on the 12th?  Mr. Ruddy can do as he likes for it is his.

[Paul Dolton]

I was shocked at the water hazard on the Eden course, St Andrews.

[Mark Pearce]

I was shocked at the water hazard on the Eden course, St Andrews.

Because it's shocking. 

[Mike Bodo]

A different view of 18. Still the most controversial hole on the course.

It's like there's a moat fronting the green, in some respects. However, the land mass at the tip isn't part of the green complex, which is bizarre. I'm actually more terrified of the bunkers on the right. They are so small and deep that I don't see a means of getting a shot out of them on to the green. Cool hole design. Would love to see/play it some day.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Mike the sleepers at TEC slope away from the bunker. Depending how far you are away from the front of the trap you can hit a longish club out of them. The look scarier than they play. When I have sent people to the course they comment on the sleepers the most. They also comment on the quality of the par threes, including the two "extra" par threes.

[Mike Bodo]

Mike the sleepers at TEC slope away from the bunker. Depending how far you are away from the front of the trap you can hit a longish club out of them. The look scarier than they play. When I have sent people to the course they comment on the sleepers the most. They also comment on the quality of the par threes, including the two "extra" par threes.

Thanks for the additional info, Tommy! All I know is that if my ball is in the front of any of those sleeper bunkers I'm hitting out sideways, as knowing my luck I'll drill the ball into the one of the wood planks and have the ball come back and hit me in the face. LOL! Have you or anyone here published a detailed review of the course? I'd love to see some of the other holes, but this course would be worth checking out alone for this hole.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Looking down three with one green on the very left.

[Tommy Williamsen]

12a

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()