[John Kavanaugh]

Who exactly was MacKenzie speaking to in his writings? Just in my lifetime I have seen the golfing demographic change to a point that I consider many of his ideas obsolete. I know when I first started playing in 1968 there were so few retired men playing golf that a course was a childs paradise every weekday morning. The few women that played were of a time long passed. WWII and economic opportunity must have played a role in who was golfing compared to then and now.


But the question is: Who were the golfers of the MacKenzie era and how do they compare to today?

[Jim Sherma]

Based on the thread title I expected snarky commentary on who was buying very expensive walking bags.


The actual inquiry is more interesting.


I think the demographic question needs to take into account both age cohort as well as income/wealth cohorts. In the 40 years I've been around the game the committed, middle aged, blue collar public course golfer seems to be lost to the game (and the country in general). The primarily union men in the industries of NE Pennsylvania had the regular schedule and disposable income to be the core of the regular golfers at the local munis I grew up on.


I believe that the post war flattened income distribution era that we have seen the passing of across the past 20-30 years was the aberration. It seems that golf is returning to its more elite private course based roots that seemed to be the norm prior to WW2 (other than in Scotland that is).

[Peter Pallotta]

For those who know *all* of MacKenzie's ideas, I think what's interesting is to look at what he *didn't* write -- i.e. the beliefs/realities that he and his readers took so much for granted & and treated as such basic assumptions that he wouldn't think to comment on them one way or another.  And for those who do know his writings well: did Dr Mac ever reference the fact that, for example, the members/regular tees at Augusta National were only about 15-25 yards ahead of the championship tees? (Did he ever mention a golf courses having/needing more than 2 sets of tees?) Did he write much about public/affordable golf, and how it might differ architecturally from private and/or tournament golf? Was 'growing the game' important to him? Did he long for/value sea-side settings, or mention how important sandy soil was to gca?     

[Sven Nilsen]

This should answer a few questions.


Feb. 14, 1935 Deadwood Weekly Pioneer-Times -

[John Kavanaugh]

Sven,


Could you please break that article down to a few main points. That many words are beyond me.

[Sven Nilsen]

John:

I wouldn't deign to deny you the pleasure of figuring out for yourself the message he was trying to convey.

Sven

“Employ your time in improving yourself by other men’s writings so that you shall come easily by what others have labored hard for.” – Socrates

[John Kavanaugh]

I’m not the only modern golfer with a short attention span. One of the differences between us and then.

[Sven Nilsen]

You grew up in the Album Generation, and now you only want the single.

I was always amazed by those old 1920's stories of flagpole sitting contests.  Imagine doing something so pointless, vain and solitary for so long. 

It is amazing that golf has survived as long as it has.

"I have a very short attention span, so sitting down with a book is very difficult for me." Tomi Lahren

[Bernie Bell]

My attention span is fine, but perhaps my eyesight is failing.  Quite a bit of the piece is hard to decipher for me.

[Kalen Braley]

My attention span is fine, but perhaps my eyesight is failing.  Quite a bit of the piece is hard to decipher for me.

I'm afraid Bernie is correct here, even zooming in doesn't help.  Do you have another version of that clipping Sven?

[Sean_A]

0

My attention span is fine, but perhaps my eyesight is failing.  Quite a bit of the piece is hard to decipher for me.

+1. Many of these old scanned articles are so far out of focus I can't read them. Gives me a headache to try.

Happy Hockey

[Peter Pallotta]

And to stretch an analogy beyond the breaking point, I'd imagine that if you took us back to the 20s and 30s and handed us the equipment of the day, playing even a Mackenzie course would give us more of a 'headache' than most modern 'average golfers' are used to now, or would long stand for. We'd quickly be reaching for the 'aspirins' of new club technology and the machine-flattened fairways and multiple tees of RTJones. Which I suppose is exactly what happened: jazz devolved into R&B, men stopped wearing fedoras, doctors started saying that cigarettes were bad for us, and baby boomers who were born on 3rd base convinced themselves that they'd hit a triple. No one could afford (or allow themselves) to look ridiculous and shoot 100 week in and week out anymore.
     

[Kalen Braley]

I got thru the first 1/3 of the article before i started getting eye strain.  Here's what its saying so far:

- Golf provides Health, happiness, and physical fitness
- Luxuries of rich today are necessities of poor tomorrow,  with several examples listed
- IN his youth, Muni golf was cheap, st andrews was free to town locals?
- In the US they don't appreciate the benefits of golf, and the open spaces it provides.
- US soil and temp conditions not as suitable as Scotland

[Thomas Dai]

Different countries, different scenarios but in general life expectancy has increased since Dr Mack’s time as have retirement age profiles. And these days folks who once wouldn’t have been able to walk around a course can ride in a buggy.
Atb

[Craig Disher]

I have a more readable version of the article but I'm not sure posting it would render it more readable. Anyway, I think MacKenzie's main theme in the article is that municipalities ought to rely on architects to design public courses. A course designed by an experienced architect will be less expensive to construct and be designed to let the recreational golfer have fun, e.g. courses should have fewer bunkers, more natural ground features and minimal rough to keep golfers from looking for golf balls. This comment about sums it up:

The most important thing of all in the designing and maintenance of a municipal course is the realization by everyone concerned that golf is played for fun, and unless a golf course provides the maximum amount of pleasure for everyone, including the beginner who rarely gets ball off the ground, it is not a complete success.

[Bernie Bell]

In Spirit of St Andrews he contends also that municipal golf is a bulwark against Bolshevism and that it can be built and run without burdening the public fisc.  Whomever his intended audience for that writing, it reached them too late to do him any good.  I'm not sure what aspects of his writing John considers obsolete.

[Bernie Bell]

Article is crystal clear now, thanks!  Mackenzie quoting von Mises. “One of the many advantages of capitalism is that under this system the luxuries of the rich today become the necessities of the poor tomorrow.”

[Peter Pallotta]

Yes:
the only thing that's changed is *us*. Mackenzie's ideas haven't become obsolete, we have!
[Sorry, but I'm almost sure JK will remember that Twilight Zone episode, with Burgess Meredith as Mr. Wordsworth -- the book-reading, God-believing librarian whom the State considers obsolete -- and Fritz Weaver as the Chancellor, who betrays his essential cowardice in the moments before their impending deaths. But wait: JK is not obsolete, I am. I basically sit here typing, while he's effortlessly & successfully changed with the times. He joined Dismal the first time he saw it!]
 

[JMEvensky]

Yes:
the only thing that's changed is *us*. Mackenzie's ideas haven't become obsolete, we have!
[Sorry, but I'm almost sure JK will remember that Twilight Zone episode, with Burgess Meredith as Mr. Wordsworth -- the book-reading, God-believing librarian whom the State considers obsolete -- and Fritz Weaver as the Chancellor, who betrays his essential cowardice in the moments before their impending deaths. But wait: JK is not obsolete, I am. I basically sit here typing, while he's effortlessly & successfully changed with the times. He joined Dismal the first time he saw it!]

I agree that it's we who've changed--Pogo was right. MacKenzie's ideas probably wouldn't be glitzy enough today without a marketing consultant to add bells and whistles.


And props for the directly on point TZ reference.

[John Kavanaugh]

Beginners no longer hit the ball along the ground and according to Mike Young muni's ain't all that great of an idea.


On another note: How does the cost of a golf ball today relate as a percentage of a green fee today compared to Mac's time. I bet balls are much more plentiful and cheap now.

[JESII]

Has to be a small fraction of the relative price...






Disagree about beginners hitting the ball along the ground though...they still do. All but the 25 year old male beginners...

[John Kavanaugh]

I hit the ball along the ground several times yesterday but like most beginners I also hit several shots in the air. You just can't negate the simplicity of modern equipment for the novice golfer. Part of which leads to my contention that MacKenzie was general speaking to a much more accomplished and athletic crowd. The guy was basically a spokesman for what today would be considered trust fund babies.

[Sean_A]

I am generally in Mike's camp. I don't see much of a call for new pure munies these days. I can understand joint muni - private partnerships and maintaining /revamping existing munies, but not flat out new government facilities except for exceptional circumstances.

Happy Hockey

[Kalen Braley]

I'm not convinced we've changed per se.  We just have a very different set of external tools at our disposal that has fundamentally changed the way people interact and how/where/when they spend thier free time.

[John Kavanaugh]

MacKenzie was born 5 years after the death of Abraham Lincoln. Do you really believe that how we and who spend our recreational hours hasn’t changed in that time?

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