[George Pazin]

8 has always gotten the publicity, with the dramatic shot over the cliffs and chasm. But 9 and 10 just look more interesting to me, with the slopes pulling you toward the cliffs and beach, and the bunkering defending the (seemingly) preferred left, higher side of the fairways.


Put a different way, 9 & 10 look more natural to me, whereas 8 looks more contrived.


What say you?


Caveats - I've walked Pebble twice and seen it on the tube a billion times, but haven't been able to play it, so my thoughts could obviously be very different from your actual experiences. I'd like to hear about that as well.


Fwiw, when I walked it, 6 made the biggest impression visually and emotionally both times. That's the hole I'd most want to play.

[Jim Nugent]

I hold a distinctly minority opinion (maybe of one in the entire world), which is further buttressed by the fact that I've never seen Pebble in person, only on TV.  That said, it surprises me that so many people regard #8 as world class, either for pro's or average golfers.   

First the pro's.  They hit a mid-iron off the tee, and then a short iron to the green.  The second shot has plenty of peril around it and is dramatic.  But why does a par four that dictates play (very few real options here)... that calls for a mid-iron followed by a short-iron... rank as one of the best par 4s in the world?  The explanations I've heard don't quite clear this up for me. 

Now for average players.  Real short hitters (200 yard drives or less) face a hell of a challenge there.  A blind drive, followed by one of the hardest second shots they'll ever face.  Carrying the gorge must be impossible for them.  What do they do?  Pitch the ball through the rough along the cart path?  Hard to see how they can engage the architecture, other than to admire the beauty.

Average golfers who hit the ball 230 yards or so have a better chance, but still real tough.  Requires two excellent, long shots.  Don't pull them off, and you likely lose a ball (or several). 

Even the pro's have trouble scoring there.  Can hardly imagine what bogey golfers average.  That difficulty, added to the lack of meaningful options, make me think it's not a world-class hole, however spectacular the setting. 

George, that's a roundabout way of saying I agree with you! 

[Tommy Williamsen]

Into the wind #8 is one of the most dramatic holes I have ever played. The first time I played it I hit driver three wood to the left edge of the green. The second shot is exhilarating even with a short iron. The green is small with a lot of slope. There is room off the tee for the player to hit to a position for the angle he wants. As fir 9&10 they are beasts. Get through there for most amateurs in even par an you have bragging rights.


The first time I played six I thought it was the best par five I have ever played. The holes from 6-10 are among the best stretches in golf.

[William_G]

George and Jim Happy Fathers Day!


treat yourselves to a round a Pebble, they have tee times available 



Carmel Bay in your face and soothing the mind with Point Lobos, 17 Mile Drive and Carmel Beach as your backdrop



6 need a great drive so you can have a chance with a blind uphill second shot with a forced carry


7 great par 3


8 blind tee shot, aim at the chimney with a must carry second


9 must hit fairway and green with sloping and eroding cliff


10 must hit fairway and green with sloping and eroding cliff
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[Matthew Rose]

For me, the second shot at 8 was a thrill I waited the first 40 years of my life to attempt, and it did not disappoint when I finally got the chance to do it.

9 and 10 are wonderful and in a headwind maybe two of the hardest holes I've ever played. But they don't give me the same rush. I think there's just something about the visual appeal of that shot over the chasm to that tiny 8th green.

If there's one thing that bothers me about the hole, it is the forced layup, but I suspect that wasn't an issue when the hole was designed. Unfortunately there isn't any way to make it longer. I think it'd be even better if it played 60-70 yards longer and then you could have a scenario where you were tempted to bring the cliff into play for a better approach.

[Adam Clayman]

George, #8 is not contrived. So, I'm not picking up on what you're trying to say about naturalism.


Recent bunker work on 9 and 10 hasn't helped the Natural look, either.


I will say that 9 and 10 can be a lot more confounding, depending on the less than ideal spot, you might get in. Opposed to #8, while there are still plenty of options, on how and where to play, but they are much more obvious or straight forward, when out of position.


 


 

[George Pazin]

George, #8 is not contrived. So, I'm not picking up on what you're trying to say about naturalism.


Recent bunker work on 9 and 10 hasn't helped the Natural look, either.


I will say that 9 and 10 can be a lot more confounding, depending on the less than ideal spot, you might get in. Opposed to #8, while there are still plenty of options, on how and where to play, but they are much more obvious or straight forward, when out of position.

Thanks, big guy, I welcome the input from an experienced person I trust.


Perhaps contrived isn't the right word. 8 certainly isn't manufactured. And I do think it's great, just not great in the same way as 9 & 10, which admittedly play to my own biases.


Look forward to seeing what the leaders do on all 3 today....

[mike_beene]

I have often bailed left on the approach to 8. Doesn't work so well at 9 or 10

[Tim Leahy]

Pros don't hit short irons to #8. Watch a replay of the Open. Hitting over those cliffs is scarier than what you see in the mirror in the morning. LOL

[Jim Nugent]

Tim, they hit plenty of 7-irons and 8-irons. 

The shot certainly looks scary. 

[Rob Marshall]

Tim, they hit plenty of 7-irons and 8-irons. 

The shot certainly looks scary.

They did, but they were still 200 yard shots

[Michael Moore]

The ninth hole has to be one of the best in the world. As shown on television this week, playing slightly downhill and slightly downwind, this is a great par-four for the bombers, who have to squeeze a mid-iron approach in between the ocean and a very deep bunker. What is especially amazing about watching these approach shots from two hundred yards is the knowledge that there is a diabolical par-five second-shot landing area that is completely hidden from view.
 
I, along with a great many guests, steered the tee shot away from the ocean and into the left rough. From there, attempting to skirt two gigantic fairway bunkers that you can't see has to be one of the most difficult layups in the game. Getting the third close when the bottom of the flag is obscured by yet another imposing bunker is not easy either. And Lord help the chap who drove it 280 down the middle and is having a go from 240.
 
A very rare hole that challenges everyone. Sprinkle the setting and the view on top and you've got everything you could ever want.

[Matthew Petersen]

I think the 8th has more going for it than many are giving it credit for. Granted, the USGA took away a good bit of the hole's usual strategy this week by dramatically narrowing the fairway.


On a normal day, the goal is to hit it as close to the cliff's edge as you dare, which is a risky shot to begin with but doubly so given that it's blind from the tee. The cliff runs at a bit of an angle from the tee. You can hit it farther the more left you play--the truly ideal shot is 260 uphill to the far left corner of the fairway. That set up the best angle to the green and leaves the shortest shot ... but no one would ever try to hit their drive there on purpose because even a slight push and the ball would be over the cliff edge (and a slight pull would find the left rough, which is also no picnic).


But I actually like the drive, because it does test how brave you want to be on a blind shot. And if you chicken out and play too shot or too far left it makes the second shot a lot longer and makes a tough shot much harder.


The second shot is dramatic and beautiful and very much photographed, but the green should be dramatically expanded and if it were then it would be a much better hole overall. There's so much room left of and behind the current green that seems like it ought to be and probably once was green. It's a real shame.

[MKrohn]

I have only been to Pebble once and for me its not a mid iron off the tee, I hit 3 wood, I could care less that Brooks et al are able to whack a 5 iron past me, I have very little interest in professional golf.


The 2nd shot is scary/challenging and for me in some weird way reminded me of my 2nd into 17 at TOC, I knew in my heart I would be unlikely to be back at either.


With the wind off the ocean I stood on 8 at Pebble and drew it with the breeze to 20ft, what a feeling......somewhat negated by the the 3 stab but I still remember that day.


I find it difficult as I wander around the place to differentiate any GCA from the sheer joy of playing the above mentioned holes with their history.

[Jason Topp]

George:


The tee shot applies pressure to all levels of player because you want the shortest possible 2nd shot without going over the cliff.  The 2nd shot is as strategic as it gets from one of the best spots on earth.

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