Donald Ross in Florida

[Addison King]

Want to start a thread dedicated to Donald Ross courses, history, and activity in Florida. Below is a list of courses pulled from the Donald Ross Society. If anyone has information or photos please feel free to share. I am relatively new to Florida and plan on seeing all of the Donald Ross work in the state. What are some of yalls favorites/recommendation?


 

Belleair Country Club - #2 East Belleair 1915 Belleair Country Club - #1 West Belleair 1915 Belleair Country Club - #1 West Belleair Belleview Biltmore Golf Club (FKA Belleview Mido , OKA Pelican Country Club ) Belleair 1925 Biltmore Golf Course (OKA Miami Biltmore ) Coral Gables 1926 Bobby Jones Golf Club - British/American (OKA Sarasota Muny ) Sarasota 1926 Boca Raton Resort & Club - Cloisters (OKA Mizner #1 ) Boca Raton 1925 Bradenton Country Club (OKA Palma Sola CC ) Bradenton 1925 Brentwood Golf Club (FKA Jacksonville Muny ) Jacksonville 1923 Crane Creek Reserve Golf Club (FKA Melbourne Golf Course ) Melbourne 1928 Daytona Beach Golf Club - South Daytona Beach 1921 Delray Beach Golf Club Delray Beach 1925 Dunedin Golf Club (OKA Dunedin Isles Golf Course ) Dunedin 1926 E. F. Hutton - Miniature Course Palm Beach 1929 Florida Country Club Jacksonville 1922 Fort George Island Golf Club Jacksonville 1927 Fort Myers Country Club Fort Myers 1916 Gulf Stream Golf Club Delray Beach 1924 Handley Park Golf Club New Smyrna Beach 1922 Hyde Park Golf Club Jacksonville 1925 Lakeside Links Golf Club (OKA Keystone Heights Country Club ) Keystone Heights 1928 Lake Pierce Country Club Lake Wales 1925 Longboat Key Club Sarasota 1924 Mark Bostick Golf Course at The University of Florida Gainesville Miami Country Club (OKA Miami Golf Links ) Miami 1919 Miami Shores Country Club Miami (North Miami) 1925 New Smyrna Golf Club (OKA New Smyrna Beach Country Club ) New Smyrna Beach 1947 Orlando, Country Club of Orlando 1918 Palatka Municipal Golf Course Palatka 1925 Palm Beach Country Club Palm Beach 1917 Palma Ceia Golf Course Tampa Panama Country Club Lynn Haven 1927 Pinecrest Golf Club (FKA Pinecrest Lakes CC ) Avon Park 1926 Pinellas Country Club Belleair 1925 Ponce de Leon Resort & Country Club (OKA St. Augustine Links North ) St. Augustine 1916 Punta Gorda Country Club Punta Gorda Riviera Country Club (OKA Miami Biltmore-South ) Coral Gables 1924 San Jose Country Club Jacksonville 1925 Sara Bay Country Club(FKA North Shore CC (1940) / Sarasota Bay CC 1941-1964 - OKA Whitfield Estates Country Club ) Sarasota 1925 Sarasota Golf & Country Club Sarasota Seminole Golf Club North Palm Beach 1929 St. Augustine Links - South St. Augustine 1916 Timuquana Country Club Jacksonville 1923 Venetia Country Club Jacksonville 1925 * Courses in red are NLE

[Craig Disher]

I'm surprised that the DRS doesn't list the NLE Melbourne Municipal GC.  My error - it's listed as Crane Creek Reserve. Regrettably, CCR bears no relation to the Ross original and is a dreary course in its own right. I also recall the Delray Municipal course which I played not long ago. I doubt if its current version has any connection to Ross's original plans. Seminole is another story entirely.

[Adam T]

Addison,

This is a great topic. You will find no shortage of resources here on GCA regarding Donald Ross in Florida. I myself am not a Floridian, but I wanted to share some helpful links with you as you explore:

• Two recent, robust threads come to mind around Ross courses. First is Tom Doak's "Top 100" Donald Ross Courses. The other is Sven Nilsen's "Reunderstanding Ross". Both contain a wealth of information and GCAer opinions on Ross courses from around the country.
• Have you seen the film "Donald Ross: Discovering the Legend"? If not, prepare for 2 of the most informative golfing hours not spent on a golf course you can imagine. I have rewatched the documentary about 10 times and learn something new during every viewing.
• The GCA interviews section features countless conversations with Donald Ross experts, many of whom also speak in the video mentioned above. They include but are not limited to Ran Morrissett, Tom Doak, Kyle Franz, Brad Klein, Michael Fay, Chris Buie, Dunlop White, even the architect himself.
• And, though I am by no means a Florida golf expert, I will say that a few courses on your list which pop up frequently on the GCA forums include Seminole (...) and Timuquana. Michael Fay, captain emeritus of the Donald Ross society, cites Fort Myers Country Club as one of his favorites in the documentary. The only course I personally have played on that list is the University of Florida Mark Bostick golf course, and I was very impressed by the sharply contoured green complexes. I have played 20 Donald Ross courses overall, and Mark Bostick is yet another example of Ross's legendary routing prowess.

Good luck and enjoy the journey!

-Adam

[Kyle Harris]

If Ross did any work at PineCrest or CC of Orlando there is no evidence of it.

PineCrest is correctly attributed to H. Bert Way, the same fellow who routed Firestone.
CC of Orlando is likely Tom Bendelow.

Lake Pierce in Lake Wales is NLE.

Belleview Biltmore is back to being called Pelican Golf Club and just reopened following an extensive renovation by Beau Welling. At least a few greens were moved.

Sorry to those of you who took the "Under" in my response time to this thread. 

[Ian Andrew]

Hyde Park in Jacksonville was originally a Stanley Thompson course.

When it became a controversial topic a number of years ago I shared the newspaper clippings from the build.
It's also in Thompson's advertisements.

[Cob Carlson]

Adam, thanks for the kind words about my Ross film. I do think it has a timeless quality to it.


I haven't had the pleasure of playing many of Ross' Florida courses, but I thought Dunedin was a terrific and challenging track.


Also, kudos to the folks in Sarasota for their loving work on the Bobby Jones Golf Club,

[Scott Senior]

If Ross did any work at PineCrest or CC of Orlando there is no evidence of it.

PineCrest is correctly attributed to H. Bert Way, the same fellow who routed Firestone.
CC of Orlando is likely Tom Bendelow.

Lake Pierce in Lake Wales is NLE.

Belleview Biltmore is back to being called Pelican Golf Club and just reopened following an extensive renovation by Beau Welling. At least a few greens were moved.

Sorry to those of you who took the "Under" in my response time to this thread. 

Hey Kyle,


I played CC of Orlando a couple years ago. They advertise the course as a Ross. When I was there they were excited about a "Ross restoration" they were hoping to get done. Whatever happened...did it get done??? From your comment above I'm thinking not.

[Sven Nilsen]

Scott:


The CC of Orlando has claimed it is a Ross course for eons, and the Donald Ross Society recognized it as such probably solely due to their claim.


There is no evidence Ross touched the course, and if he did it was most likely some kind of renovation work.  There is actually a Ross quote from the mid-1920's (well after the 18 hole course was put in the ground) where he notes he was to visit the city of Orlando for the first time.  There is a ton of evidence that it was an original 1911 9 holer that was expanded and renovated by Tom Bendelow.


There was a restoration done a little while back where the architects involved discussed the Ross heritage of the course and restored it as such.


Maybe someday those involved will recognize the truth on this one.


Sven

[Bill Crane]

Architect Kris Spence really did some wonderful work on the greens and bunkers at Sara Bay CC in Sarasota. I was there for the second time in February.
A ton of character for Florida and seems like a delightful membership group as well.
They also have a fascinating history with Bobby Jones spending so much time there, and Tommy Armour as well. They played matches against Hagen, Sarazen and long list of others including many women's matches. 

[Kyle Harris]

If Ross did any work at PineCrest or CC of Orlando there is no evidence of it.

PineCrest is correctly attributed to H. Bert Way, the same fellow who routed Firestone.
CC of Orlando is likely Tom Bendelow.

Lake Pierce in Lake Wales is NLE.

Belleview Biltmore is back to being called Pelican Golf Club and just reopened following an extensive renovation by Beau Welling. At least a few greens were moved.

Sorry to those of you who took the "Under" in my response time to this thread. 

Hey Kyle,


I played CC of Orlando a couple years ago. They advertise the course as a Ross. When I was there they were excited about a "Ross restoration" they were hoping to get done. Whatever happened...did it get done??? From your comment above I'm thinking not.

The renovation work went through and is absolutely brilliant work by Ron Forse and Jim Nagle.


Just because something may never have been a Ross course doesn't mean it is a bad course!

Did anybody notice anything........about the Ron Forse work?

[Kyle Harris]

Fort Myers and Dunedin are both worthy munis. Dunedin can be a bit of a chore of pace of play.

[Jay Revell]

Love this thread especially since my home state may be the Fake Ross Capital of the World...


Adding to some previous notes here


Indeed Hyde Park is a Thompson


CCO has a wonderfully renovated course that is one of my favorites in the state now, but it isn't a Ross.


Palatka was done by W.D. Clark


Lake Wales is actually a Raynor but I believe Ross may have stopped through at some point.


Go play Timuquanna for sure. Recent renovations there by Bruce Hepner have been fabulous.

[Jay Revell]

Ill add a great resource for anyone wanting background on some of Florida's most historic public courses...the Florida Historic Golf Trail is a great compilation of public access golden age courses. Scott Edwards at the Department of State compiled a great booklet on these courses and is one of the best historians in the state as it relates to golf. It is worth taking a scroll through what he pulled together here. See website below.


http://floridahistoricgolftrail.com/

[David Kelly]

I'll second the recommendation of Sara Bay in Sarasota.  A rare underrated course in a state full of overrated courses.

[Rees Milikin]

I'll second the recommendation of Sara Bay in Sarasota.  A rare underrated course in a state full of overrated courses.

Agreed, it’s solid, especially after the Spence work.

[Addison King]

Thanks everyone for your replies and suggestions.
[/size]
[/size]This week I am in Jacksonville for work and played Hyde Park yesterday afternoon. Very interesting that it is a Stanley Thompson, they definitely claim Ross heritage. The course was in pretty rough shape conditioning wise but you could tell the course has good bones. Many greens sloped back to front. Would be interested to see drawings or an old aerial photo, there seems to be many places for fairway bunkers that no longer exist. I am trying to see a couple more courses while I am here this week.
[/size]
[/size]Adam, thank you for the suggestion of "Donald Ross: Discovering the Legend" watched it last night. Very much enjoyed it. Cob, it was a very informative film and a great way to start learning about DR. Very excited to learn more about his heritage here in Florida.
[/size]

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

If Ross did any work at PineCrest or CC of Orlando there is no evidence of it.

PineCrest is correctly attributed to H. Bert Way, the same fellow who routed Firestone.
CC of Orlando is likely Tom Bendelow.

Lake Pierce in Lake Wales is NLE.

Belleview Biltmore is back to being called Pelican Golf Club and just reopened following an extensive renovation by Beau Welling. At least a few greens were moved.

Sorry to those of you who took the "Under" in my response time to this thread. 

Hey Kyle,


I played CC of Orlando a couple years ago. They advertise the course as a Ross. When I was there they were excited about a "Ross restoration" they were hoping to get done. Whatever happened...did it get done??? From your comment above I'm thinking not.

The renovation work went through and is absolutely brilliant work by Ron Forse and Jim Nagle.


Just because something may never have been a Ross course doesn't mean it is a bad course!

Did anybody notice anything........about the Ron Forse work?

Over the past couple of years, i've had the opportunity to play a couple of these "Donald Ross" courses. Sara Bay, Timuquana, CC of Orlando, and most recently Palma Ceia. All were similar... built on flat ground, cozy parcel of land, push-up greens, etc. What I liked most about them is the restrained use of water as a hazard.


To follow-up Kyle's point, the Forse/Nagle work at CC of Orlando, especially the green complexes, is outstanding and clearly makes it best of these courses I've played.


And, what did I miss about the Forse work there? I'm curious!

[Addison King]

Keystone Heights Golf and Country Club (Lakeside Links Golf Club)- Keystone Heights, FL


According to the DRS, Keystone Heights is a 1928 Donald Ross. I cant find any documentation of Donald Ross's work there. Florida seems to be full of fake Ross courses, if anyone has any information regarding Keystone please add. It is a 9 hole course that has seen better days. Holes 4-6 are on the most interesting land on the property. Considerable elevation change (for Florida) on holes 5 and 6. Almost a completely blind approach shot into number 6. Below is a link to drone footage I took of every hole yesterday.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssB5YfeaRwY

[Wayne_Kozun]

On a related note - there was a tweet from the Society of Golf Historians a few days ago saying:
"...Belleair CC in Florida, the oldest golf course in the state circa 1897.  36 holes laid out by D. Ross & hopefully soon to be restored by Fry/Straka..."


Surely the course(s) from 1897 can't be Ross as he wasn't in the USA yet.   The 1915 date in the OP makes more sense but if the course was essentially redone by Ross then is it the oldest course?

[Ken Fry]

I played Miami Springs a few days ago.  Can someone enlighten me to Ross' involvement?


The history states the course was designed by a member named Tub Palmer then the 18 hole course was completed by Langford and Moreau.  Is this another false credit?


Ken

[Rees Milikin]

I played Miami Springs a few days ago.  Can someone enlighten me to Ross' involvement?


The history states the course was designed by a member named Tub Palmer then the 18 hole course was completed by Langford and Moreau.  Is this another false credit?


Ken

False claim. Definitely L&M. 

[jeffwarne]

I played Miami Springs a few days ago.  Can someone enlighten me to Ross' involvement?


The history states the course was designed by a member named Tub Palmer then the 18 hole course was completed by Langford and Moreau.  Is this another false credit?


Ken

How was it?
used to escape Doral and play there back in the 90's-cool spot and an oasis in the blight that is that part of Miami

[Sven Nilsen]

I played Miami Springs a few days ago.  Can someone enlighten me to Ross' involvement?


The history states the course was designed by a member named Tub Palmer then the 18 hole course was completed by Langford and Moreau.  Is this another false credit?


Ken

Ken:


The Ross course was called Miami Shores, not Miami Springs. It is NLE.


Sven

[Ken Fry]

I played Miami Springs a few days ago.  Can someone enlighten me to Ross' involvement?


The history states the course was designed by a member named Tub Palmer then the 18 hole course was completed by Langford and Moreau.  Is this another false credit?


Ken

Ken:


The Ross course was called Miami Shores, not Miami Springs. It is NLE.


Sven

Rees and Sven,


Thanks guys.  Someone along the way told me it was Ross.  I knew of Fort Pierce near Lake Wales and the debate about Lake Wales CC but this one confused me.


Jeff,


The course was really enjoyable.  The green complexes were a lot of fun.  Unfortunately the greens were punched the week before so were very sandy and slow.  Still, there was a lot to see and enjoy.


My choice was Doral at $390 or Miami Springs.  Even though the architectural credit was a bit confused, the history of Miami Springs made the decision easy.  If in the area I would definitely return for another go.  No nonsense good golf.


Ken

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

A friend of mine used to belong to a course called The Vinoy and he said it was a Ross.

Looks to be owned by the Marriott and the website said its a Ron Garl design,

Was it ever a Ross, or was it redone to the point where it can no longer considered one?