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Neil Regan

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Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2018, 08:11:25 AM »
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 08:13:24 AM by Neil Regan »
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Kalen Braley

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Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2018, 10:12:43 AM »
I thought same too...until I realized there is a shadow cutting midway thru his ear on that lower pic which could be affecting depth perception and how it appears for the camera.


This myth isn't busted yet...still at least Plausible!!  ;D
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Kalen Braley

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Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2018, 04:36:41 PM »
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 04:38:37 PM by Kalen Braley »
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Marty Bonnar

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Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2018, 05:00:42 PM »
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Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2018, 05:15:06 PM »


The more I see of that photo, the more I think the curve of the nose is different, and the earlobes are definitely different.  Looking at the colorized photo again, it may even be some photoshop work.  Also, mole in the BW pic on left side, none earlier (while mole removal may have been available in 1914, I doubt mole additions were or are available, except in cases of Mel Brooks movies.....


Lastly, crease lines around chin and mouth aren't really the same.Similar stache, but a thousand guys could have looked similar, at least IMHO.  Good pub for Marty, though. 


Also good insight on what it takes to make news, given there are 4, 982 news and sport channels, all looking for content, no matter how viable.  Snarky?  Yes, but some truth to it.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 05:18:16 PM by Jeff_Brauer »
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2018, 05:34:52 PM »
Quote from: Jeff_Brauer on December 06, 2018, 05:15:06 PM


The more I see of that photo, the more I think the curve of the nose is different, and the earlobes are definitely different.  Looking at the colorized photo again, it may even be some photoshop work.  Also, mole in the BW pic on left side, none earlier (while mole removal may have been available in 1914, I doubt mole additions were or are available, except in cases of Mel Brooks movies.....

There’s no photoshop work. It’s a pic I took on my iPad from my tv screen completely untouched in any way. I think the earlobe finishes lower than others are seeing. I’ll post another.
The BW pic is from maybe twenty years later. Moles can develop in the Californian sun, I assume?

Lastly, crease lines around chin and mouth aren't really the same.Similar stache, but a thousand guys could have looked similar, at least IMHO.  Good pub for Marty, though. 

I don’t give a shit about ‘pub’.

Also good insight on what it takes to make news, given there are 4, 982 news and sport channels, all looking for content, no matter how viable.  Snarky?  Yes, but some truth to it.


Please.

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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2018, 05:45:17 PM »
I think the earlobe is the more brightly lit area below the darker bit of the ear.



I don’t have access to software where I could draw a line right now, but you see the light area I mean?
F.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2018, 05:55:48 PM »
Right,
For complete disclosure, here it what you’ve all been viewing.
A photo taken on an iPad of a paused BBC iplayer stream on my tv of a colourised 100-year-old black-and-white film shot in some shithole war hospital in WWI.
Pardon me if it’s not 8k HD and some bloke isn’t immediately recognisable.
It’s a theory.
FFS.
F.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2018, 08:19:18 PM »
As I suggested on Facebook, see if you can run down this fellow.  He apparently is near your location.   

Forensic artist Dr Christopher Rynn from Dundee University's Centre for Anatomy and Human Identification


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Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2018, 08:10:23 AM »
Quote from: Marty Bonnar on December 06, 2018, 05:55:48 PM

It’s a theory.
FFS.


..........and one that I took to be a humorous one, but perhaps I was mistaken ?

Niall
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Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2018, 10:09:03 AM »

Understand its a theory, wasn't really poking fun at MB, just Geoff Shack/Golf Channel for thinking that was vetted enough to put out there on TV.  He concluded it was Mac.


To me, its fun to discuss and wonder about, but I would have thought Golf Channel or others would have needed more proof to put this out there.  I know its not as serious as something real world, and it was meant to be fun, but nonetheless, it must have been a "slow news day" for the Golf Channel to waste a minute or more on it.  IMHO, of course.
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tom Allen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2018, 10:12:18 AM »
I think it is very cool, and an incredibly close resemblance, but as of now, if I am on the jury, I am in the camp of very close, but no cigar (cigarette maybe).  ;)

The mole is one giveaway, but for me it was the ears: the field doc seems to have a round and attached earlobe, but Dr. Mac appears to have more of an angular and detached earlobe.

Lighting could responsible for that distinction, but I'd like to see more photos of MacKenzie's ear for comparison.  (I can't believe I just wrote that sentence.  ;)
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Stephen Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2018, 10:26:08 AM »
Quote from: Marty Bonnar on December 06, 2018, 05:55:48 PM
Right,
For complete disclosure, here it what you’ve all been viewing.
A photo taken on an iPad of a paused BBC iplayer stream on my tv of a colourised 100-year-old black-and-white film shot in some shithole war hospital in WWI.
Pardon me if it’s not 8k HD and some bloke isn’t immediately recognisable.
It’s a theory.
FFS.
F.


Great response!!! This got a laugh out of me  ;D
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Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2018, 01:20:03 PM »
Quote from: Niall C on December 07, 2018, 08:10:23 AM
Quote from: Marty Bonnar on December 06, 2018, 05:55:48 PM

It’s a theory.
FFS.


..........and one that I took to be a humorous one, but perhaps I was mistaken ?

Niall


I think it started out that way...




 ;)
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2018, 01:36:21 PM »
Ears do in fact, never stop growing...so I would certainly expect his ears to look different in his older years. And while moles do often show up early in life, they often don't pop up or change color until you get older, which also explains that.

 With all the crap on TV 24/7, this seems rather tame by comparison...it is whimsical sure, but could very well have been him!


P.S.  Last I checked its not like Marty is trying to sell crap he found under a bed somewhere, why the outrage!??  ;D




« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 01:42:54 PM by Kalen Braley »
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Colin Macqueen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2018, 03:42:32 PM »
"It's a theory FFS!"


"...why the outrage."


'Ear, 'ear, I say!


Historical research ofttimes uses primary sources. However when push comes to shove sources off an iPad photo, taken off a television screen, off a still in a video, of a photo from army archives from an old report might just suffice!


Cheers Colin (laughing like a spider!).
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"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2018, 06:05:25 PM »
Quote from: Duncan Cheslett on December 07, 2018, 01:20:03 PM
Quote from: Niall C on December 07, 2018, 08:10:23 AM
Quote from: Marty Bonnar on December 06, 2018, 05:55:48 PM

It’s a theory.
FFS.


..........and one that I took to be a humorous one, but perhaps I was mistaken ?

Niall


I think it started out that way...




 ;)


Unusually (for me!) there wasn’t an iota of humour intended!
Weird, I know!
F.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2018, 06:05:48 PM »
 ;D I think the main Golf Channel objective was some time filler to give Rhymer a set-up joke to declare the "shaft lean" was off referring to the smoking eraiconic fag hanging from the lips.   ::)
It might have also been inside jokes beteween Charlie  and Geoff about the lenghths we GCA fans go to idolize ODGs, particularly "The Good Doctor'" returns in technicolor.    For goodness sake, Geoff wrote that very book.

 
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 06:11:49 PM by RJ_Daley »
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Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2018, 07:59:44 PM »
So, after an eternity of searching through the Imperial War Museum film archive, I’ve found the unretouched, uncolourised original footage. It runs from 13:34 to 13:54 in this film, although you really should watch it all and many of the others. War is horrible. We’re a bunch of idiots.


https://film.iwmcollections.org.uk/record/1325


F.



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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Colin Macqueen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2018, 02:10:17 AM »
"We're a bunch of idiots."   Now that will be undisputed!


Cheers Colin
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The Hielander

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2018, 07:19:58 PM »
Here’s more footage of who I think is the same Officer. It’s the bloke with two stripes on his cuff who starts out on the left hand side of the film.
He comes in at 8:31 until 8:53.


https://film.iwmcollections.org.uk/record/1325


F.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Niall C

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Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2018, 08:04:36 AM »
FBD

I don't know what it is about those links but I can't get the films to play. Am I just being a techno-numpty ?  :-[

Niall
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Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2018, 08:08:23 AM »
Quote from: Niall C on December 10, 2018, 08:04:36 AM
FBD

I don't know what it is about those links but I can't get the films to play. Am I just being a techno-numpty ?  :-[

Niall


Working fine on both my iPad and Amazon Fire, mate, so, yes, you're just being a techno-numpty!
 ;D
F.


PS I should say it's the same film for both clips!
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 08:11:37 AM by Marty Bonnar »
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Duncan Cheslett

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Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #48 on: December 10, 2018, 08:55:04 AM »
Marty,


I can't find a definitive answer to what the two stripes on the sleeve signifies. I don't think he's an officer, though.


MacKenzie was a lieutenant in the Royal Engineers. Surely he'd have two pips on his shoulder rather than two stripes on his cuff. 
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Geoff_Shackelford

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Footage of MacKenzie from WWI?
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2018, 12:25:15 PM »
You know Jeff, if you ever put this much effort into your golf holes maybe someday Golf Channel would find time to talk about how you'd finally managed to knock one out of the infield. 


Quote from: Jeff_Brauer on December 07, 2018, 10:09:03 AM
Understand its a theory, wasn't really poking fun at MB, just Geoff Shack/Golf Channel for thinking that was vetted enough to put out there on TV.  He concluded it was Mac.


To me, its fun to discuss and wonder about, but I would have thought Golf Channel or others would have needed more proof to put this out there.  I know its not as serious as something real world, and it was meant to be fun, but nonetheless, it must have been a "slow news day" for the Golf Channel to waste a minute or more on it.  IMHO, of course.
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