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A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Southern Pines, hands down.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
This seems a bit like those "if I won the lottery" fantasies.

It seems like a goal would either be to preserve or create something architecturally significant. Preservation is a far more attainable goal. Building something new wouldn't come cheap, and it would need to be done in a way that's sustainable. There would be far more bang for the buck by helping established clubs to do the right thing architecturally.

Bill Gayne's comment about helping out clubs with coastal erosion challenges seems on the right track.

I would be happy to donate to Royal North Devon if they would agree to abandon M&E's plans to destroy the 9th hole.






Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
The answer is clearly Kankakee


Assuming you mean Kankakee Elks, why not throw in Spring Valley (Tigerman must be asleep or something).  Both L&M, both bunkerless (SV) or nearly so (KE).  I would call them surprisingly similar, but their similarities aren't really surprising.  Some TLC, a big influx of money, a superintendent who knows what he has and what to do with it (Like Craig Moore is doing for the L&M nine in Marquette, MI) and each could be something close to Lawsonia especially with a fair amount of tree removal.


Spring Valley could be greatly enhanced without a big influx of money. I'd start by expanding the greens to fill the existing green pads (maybe the single biggest need there), refurbish some tee boxes, do some prudent tree trimming (but not everywhere; the trees that narrow the great par 4 15th are intrinsic to making that hole stand out; the ones illogically planted on the short par 4 14th should be hacked down immediately), and even spiff up the flags and cups. The most expensive refurbish there would be adding the bunkers Langford designed for the course, but were never built. I'm not sure the course needs them; I'd put the other stuff first.


The folks at Spring Valley know what they have; their maintenance practices are better than a lot of the soggy stuff you see here in Wisconsin. Just not sure they have the money to do the above.

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Has Aetna Springs been plowed under yet?
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Mike Hogan

  • Karma: +0/-0
My money would go to Sandpines, Florence Oregon.


It Could be the worst course ever built on some of the finest ground around.

[/size]Blow it up and start over! [size=78%]

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
My money would go to Sandpines, Florence Oregon.


It Could be the worst course ever built on some of the finest ground around.

[/size]Blow it up and start over! [size=78%]

Sandpines is not the name anymore. They are calling it Florence Links or something now.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Black Forest is for sale for under $1 million.  With some serious tree trimming and restoration work, this course should be in the conversation for modern great designs.  Additionally, the other course could be a very successful rebuild.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Black Forest is for sale for under $1 million.  With some serious tree trimming and restoration work, this course should be in the conversation for modern great designs.  Additionally, the other course could be a very successful rebuild.


Unfortunately there is probably another million or more in deferred maintenance to get it back up to snuff - bunker restoration aside.  It needs dethatching, and the irrigation system is 27 years old.  And there are still 100 other golf courses in northern MI selling golf at rock bottom prices.


I hate to see any of my courses go but it's hard to make a case to save Black Forest on economic grounds, instead of sentimental ones.  Perhaps it should be saved on historic grounds; never mind my own work, it also has the first greens ever built by Gil Hanse, and the first one by Mike DeVries! 😀


John Ezekowitz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Ponkapoag #1 in Canton, MA, would be a great candidate if the state would ever sell it.

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
How about Cavendish? we could own part of it and use the money to restore the course bunkering to Mackenzie's original like Tommy N did for Duncan on another thread

Trey Kemp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Dornick Hills in Ardmore, Oklahoma would get my vote.
twitter.com/TreyKempGCA

Jonathan Mallard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Why no love for Overhills?

Ben Hollerbach

  • Karma: +0/-0
Why no love for Overhills?
I think the US Army ownership is a hurdle just to high for plausible imagination.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Princes


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Princes

Ciao


Will you tell the McGuirks, or shall I?
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Princes

Ciao

Will you tell the McGuirks, or shall I?

Maybe save them a ton of money if they want to Himalayaize the Dunes and Shore...god, lets hope its just a nasty rumour.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Whilst this makes great reading there’s 1500 discussion group members, probably 150 are active, maybe 75 would donate a $1000, not a great fighting fund is it?


Sean don’t our US friends call such plans restoration?

Cave Nil Vino

Ari Techner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Dornick Hills in Ardmore, Oklahoma would get my vote.


This is my answer also

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Dornick Hills in Ardmore, Oklahoma would get my vote.


This is my answer also


I've already offered publicly to oversee that work for free, though I fear we don't have all the information we'd like to have ... the renovators didn't survey the old greens before they were destroyed.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
What about crowdfunding just one hole, rather just one green?
My suggestion?
The 9th green at RND/Westward Ho!
Atb

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
LuLu in Glenside, Pa. was Donald Ross’s first design in Pennsylvania. It’s a wonderful golf course but it would be great to see many of the original Ross hazards reinstalled and some trees culled to reclaim some lines of sight that are obscured. Looks like they are on their way back to prosperity with a new clubhouse subsequent to the 2015 fire. I wonder if Joe Bausch or Mike Cirba know of the existence of original drawings or photos? Thanks.



Scott Stambaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Sharp Park
Pacifica, CA USA


Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Sharp Park
Pacifica, CA USA
The City would only let it go if it becomes a frog refuge.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
What are the economics generally of such a project?


Take Southern Pines as an example given how many people mentioned it, and I gather it is still for sale.


Reasonable purchase price? Assume Elks Club needs can be navigated.


Restoration cost?


Annual Operations and Maintenance?


Revenue that would needed to be generated from golf? Number of rounds at what green fee?


Or pick a course with which you might be more familiar.


Thanks,


Ira

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
How about Cavendish? we could own part of it and use the money to restore the course bunkering to Mackenzie's original like Tommy N did for Duncan on another thread


Cavendish is not awash with cash, and could certainly use a few tens of thou for course renovation.


However, as an old-fashioned members' club, it is not for sale. Overseas and Country memberships are available though, and represent fantastic value for money!


http://www.cavendishgolfclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/2018-Cavendish-Golf-Subs-110918.pdf





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