[Mark_Rowlinson]

Golf World has issued its 2003 ranking of the courses of continental Europe.  Here it is.  I've attempted to identify what we might describe as courses from the classical age with an asterisk.

1 Valderrama, Spain no change
2 Les Bordes, France +5
3 *Halmstad, Sweden -1
4 *Morfontaine, France -1
5 *Chantilly, France -1
6 El Saler, Spain no change
7 Sotogrande, Spain -2
8 Noorwijkse, Netherlands +2
9 San Lorenzo, Portugal -1
10 PGA Catalunya, Spain no change
11 Prince de Provence, France +3
12 *Royal Zoute, Belgium no change
13 Praia d’el Ray, Portugal no change
14 Golf National (Albatros), France +1
15 *Fontainebleau, France +1
16 Palmerston Resort (Faldo), Germany +1
17 *Biella, Italy -6
18 Sperone, Corsica +3
19 Barseback, Sweden -1
20 *Kennemer, Netherlands no change
21 *Falkenstein, Germany +1
22 Seignosse, France -3
23 *Royal Hague, Netherlands +6
24 Ullna, Sweden -1
25 Troia, Portugal -1
26 *Falsterbo, Sweden +2
27 Bad Griesbach, Germany +15
28 *Villa d’Este, Italy -3
29 *Milano, Italy -3
30 I Roveri, Italy +19
31 Penha Longha, Portugal -4
32 *Club de Campo, Spain -2
33 Oitavos, Portugal NEW ENTRY
34 Club zur Vahr, Germany +9
35 San Roque, Spain +17
36 *Utrechtse De Pan, Netherlands -2
37 Berliner Motzener See, Germany -2
38 Murhof, Austria +2
39 Le Querce, Italy -7
40 *Puerta de Hierro, Spain -3
41 Real Neguri, Spain -5
42 Castelconturbia, Italy -4
43 National Belek, Turkey -4
44 *Saint Germain, France -11
45 Pevero, Italy +8
46 *Royal GC de Belgique, Belgium +5
47 Moscow Country Club, Russia +22
48 Seddiner See, Germany -2
49 Geneva, Switzerland -5
50 Vilamoura Old, Portugal +6
51 Golf du Medoc, France -20
52 Las Brisas, Spain -7
53 St Nom-la-Breteche, France -6
54 Emporda, Spain +5
55 *Hossegor, France -7
56 Fontana, Austria -2
57 El Bosque, Spain -7
58 *Royal GC des Fagnes, +5
59 *Rungsted, Denmark -5
60 *Eindhoven, Netherlands -2
61 Quinta do Peru, Portugal -4
62 *Hilversumsche, Netherlands +2
63 Bogogno, Italy +10
64 Lausanne, Switzerland -4
65 *Chiberta, France +1
66 Quinta do Lago, Portugal +1
67 GC Beuerburg, Germany -26
68 *Le Touquet, France +16
69 Domaine Imperial, Switzerland +8
70 Ljunghusen, Sweden +12
71 Montecastillo, Spain +10
72 Moliets, France -2
73 Royal Mougins, France -5
74 Bled CC, Slovenia -2
75 Nimes Campagne, France +5
76 Kempferhof, France -15
77 *Hardelot, France +8
78 *Royal Antwerp, Belgium -13
79 Taulane, France +4
80 Esbjerg, Denmark -2
81 Is Molas, Italy -7
82 Villette d’Anthon, France -27
83 Gut Altentann, Austria +10
84 Penina, Portugal -9
85 Holstebro, Denmark +11
86 Pals, Spain +6
87 Santo da Serra, Madeira NEW ENTRY
88 Vila Sol, Portugal -12
89 Oslo, Norway +1
90 Vale de Lobo, Portugal -1
91 Ruuhikoski, Finland -5
92 Sevilla, Spain -21
93 Nordcenter, Finland -5
94 Feldafing, Germany -7
95 Kobenhavns, Denmark
96 RSHE Club de Campo, Spain -2
97 Stuttgarter Solitude, Germany -18
98 Seefeld Wildmoos, Austria NEW ENTRY
99 Schloss Wilkendorff, Germany +1
100 Pestano, Portugal -5

I have several uncertainties:

Ljunghusen was founded in 1932, its architect Douglas Brasier but, knowing nothing of Brasier, I cannopt say whether it is a 1932 design.
Bled was founded in 1937 and its architect is given as Harradine, but in my edition of Cornish there's no mention of Bled.
Hardelot is classical if they mean the Pines Course, not the Dunes.
Esbjerg was founded in 1921 and the architect is given as Frederick Dreyer.  Again, I no nothing of Dreyer so the design may not date from 1921.
Oslo was founded in 1924, but I can't find a reference to its architect.  It may be newer than that.
Feldafing was founded in 1926 and the architect is credited as Limburger, but, according to Cornich, limburger admitted that his early designs were terrible, so it may be a later design.
Copenhagen was founded in 1898 but I have no reference to an architect.  I've seen a little bit from the train and it looks attractive but I have no idea who built it or when.
Lastly. Club de Campo.  It's in at numbers 32 and 96 under slightly different titles.  The famous one (No 32) was founded in 1932 and its course was designed by Javier Arana, who began designing in 1936.  When he did this one I cannot say.  RHSE lies to the north-east of Madrid, by the racecourse, and was laid out in 1997 by Robert Von Hagge.

Any clarification or comments would be welcome, but, remember, don't shoot the messenger.

[Nigel_Walton]

Two comments,

Chantilly is lovely, but does not hold a candle to Morfontaine.

Valderrama appears to maintain its reputation for its exclusivity or its high quality of maintenance. Valderrama is probably closer to tenth or fifteenth in Europe, at best. El Saler is a remarkable layout and quite a bit better than V.

[TomSteenstrup]

Regarding the Danish courses: Founded probably refers to the club, not the course.

Dreyer is the "old man" of course design in Denmark, but is still alive. The course now being played in Esbjerg opened in 1975. Dreyer's courses are usually low key but well-designed. He is a true fan of links golf, but has only had one piece of really good land to work with - the one in Esbjerg.

Esbjerg is a heathery course on the west coast. Many consider it the best in Denmark.

Copenhagen is located in the middle of a large forrest, relatively close to Copenhagen center. It has some strickt environmental restrictions and has deers running all over the course. They don't scare easily! It's the oldest club in Denmark, but not the oldest course. Don't know who did the design. I have heard both good and bad about the course. The members have a reputation for being old and snobbish.

Rungsted was designed by C.A. Mackenzie (brother to the more famous Mackenzie, I believe), but it has gone through many changes since the 1930'ies. Consensus is that this is the best course in Denmark. I have no doubt that this speaks more about the quality of courses in DK than the quality of Rungsted.

Holstebro is far away from Copenhagen. Never played it, but is should be OK, from what I have heard.

I noticed that Golf du Medoc (Bill Coore) took a nose-dive. I played it in July, and enjoyed the layout very much. The course was terribly overwatered though. Fairways and greens were soggy, the rest was beautiful. I have some pics from the course, but no server to post it at.

Tom

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Great to get your input - there are too few Europeans contributing to the site with valuable information.  

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Tom,

I think Denmark is the very best value golf in Europe.  I have only played Rungsted, Silkeborg, Holstebro, Aarhus and Esbjerg but what fun I've had, with lovely people in incomparable surroundings, and all at a fraction of the cost of a similar golfing experience in Britain.

Thanks for your input.

Mark.

[Mike_Clayton]

It is difficult to take a list seriously that has Valderamma at the top, Ullna above De Pan,Barseback above Kennemer and The Hague and Royal Zoute, Le Touquet and Peurto de Hierro so low.
It wouldn't matter except people actually do take it seriously.

[RT]

Mark,

Hardelot-That would be Le Pins , Mr. Simpson.

Golf du Medoc - I have it from reliable hard-core UK SW France golf lovers that the courses down there are "generally" overwatered.  This was in late September.  Not sure if that is the reason for the big drop, but this perennial trip group are less enamoured by going down there due to wet conditions.  Otherwise they enjoy the courses, Bill's and Rod's, the most of all on offer down there in the region.  Plus of course, the plonk...

[Mark_Rowlinson]

It might be helpful to have Golf World's voting criteria:
1. Quality of test and design 40 points.
2. Visual appeal & enjoyment 30 points
3. Fairness and presentation 20 points
4. Ambience and history 10 points

They took away highest and lowest mark for each course 'to stop any wild marking.'

Their judges were:

Christian Anker-Rasch President Norwegian Golf Federation
Hubert Chesnau General Manager French Golf Federation
Jan Espelid Editor Norsk Golf (Norway)
Dieter Genske Golf Magazine Germany
Johannes Goess-Saurau President Austrian Golf Federation
Claude Granveaud-Vallat Golf Magazine France
Henk Heyster Netherlands Golf Federation
Roswitha Kammerl Golf Travel Writers Association
Gilbert Laloge Golf Travel Writers Association
Denys Lemery contributor Peugeot Golf Guide
Stefano Manca General Secretary Italian Golf Federation
Christina Marsans Vice President Spanish Golf Federation
Ewan Murray Sky Sports Commentator
Petr Nitra PGA President Czech Republic
Stefan Quirmbach President German Golf Federation
Kurt Rossnecht European Institute of Golf Course Architects
Alvah Routledge PGA of Denmark
Jorge Santana da Silva European Institute of Golf Course Architects
Lawrie Thornton General Secretary PGA of Europe
Karsten Thuen General Secretary Danish Golf Union
Morten Vinter President Danish Golf Federation
Richard Wax St Andrews-based Golf Course Consultant.


While repecting that it's their magazine and they can do what they like how they like, had you been the magazine's editor what sort of voting criteria would you have implemented and how would you have made up the panel?

[Tony Ristola]

Oh my.  Have to agree with Mike C.  Some I'm surprised to see anywhere near the list.  

[Tony Ristola]

I'll ry again.

Oh my.  Have to agree with Mike C.  Some I'm surprised to see some of these anywhere near the list.  

[Ville Nurmi]

I don´t know if it takes away from the credibility of the list, but in 93rd place there is a finnish course called Nordcenter. The only problem is that they have 2 courses.

Ville

[Andy Levett]

These are Tom Steenstrup's pix of the Chateau course at Golf du Medoc, designed by Bill Coore, together with his captions:
18th, fairway bunker

18th green

18th tee


"The pictures from the 18th show both the best and worst of the Coore course:

- Really great integration (or melting?) with surroundings (tee pic and fairway bunker). Notice, if you can make it out, the animal holes in the fairway bunker. The picture from the tee is my favorite of the bunch
- Strategic bunkering all around. I loved the tee shots on many holes, especially 2 and 18. WE don't have enough of that in Denmark
- The greens were terribly wet. I am sure that Coore meant for neither of the two balls in the picture of the green to stay on that false front."

12th green

"The 12th par three was easily my favorite short hole. Difficult to judge in distance due to the uphill nature and the bunker about 10 yards in front of the green. The two par threes on the front nine both felt a bit forced because of the water hazards."

13th

"The bunkering on the right side of the 13th reminded me of pictures from the sandbelt courses in Australia."

[Andy Levett]

I also went to Golf du Medoc this summer. It was my only round on a family holiday in the area and I chose the course because I had heard so much about Bill Coore on this website and elsewhere and wanted to play one of his courses for myself. I thoroughly enjoyed it and found much to admire but because I had very high expectations was slightly disappointed.
As Tom says, fairways and greens were both very soft in mid-August (fairways bare as well as soggy!) and this compromised the intent of the design. But even if it was playing firm and fast there seemed to be one or two holes that didn't quite work.
Here's the first hole, from the club's website www.golf-du-medoc.com/

In theory, driving down the narrower right hand fairway gives a better line into the pin but in reality the right fairway is too narrow and the pitch in from the left too simple for the option to work. I also think this sort of risk/reward hole would sit better later on in the round.

Another I wasn't sure about was the short 7th, driveable for good players at 356yards from the back. But the bunker has been built too close to the green for anyone to take it on, as they would never hold the green if they made the carry.


Both these issues could have been fixed or avoided so perhaps Bill Coore didn't get the chance to spend as much time supervising construction as for his American projects.

[TomSteenstrup]

Thanks for posting Andy.

I completely agree on the 1st: Especially considering this is the first shot you will be playing, there just wasn't much of a choice in the tee shot. Also, when we played there, we couldn't get a course guide, hence it was impossible to judge what kind of shot it would take to find the right hand fairway.

The 7th lacked a fairway bunker that could generate some interest.

Overall though, I really enjoyed the course. The bunkering was inspired, with 18 being the highlight of the round. If only the greens hadn't been so wet...

[Christoph Meister]

Feldafing was founded in 1926 and the architect is credited as Limburger, but, according to Cornich, limburger admitted that his early designs Any clarification or comments would be welcome, but, remember, don't shoot the messenger.

Hi,

von Limburger designed the original 9 holes at Feldafing in 1926 and was again commissioned in 1960 to ad further 9 holes to the course just after the Americans had given back the course they occupied since 1945 - but according to my personal opinion they deserved such a nice course after they liberated us.... this means in 1960 von Limburger had the oppootunity to modify a few of his juvenile sins....still the layout of the original 9 holes remains a bid narrow and tricky up to this day, probably the only negative thing one could say about this most beatiful course set in an English Park on the shores of Lake Starnberg  created by Lenné for the Bavarian emporer - one of my favourite courses in Germany!

CM 

[Mark Bourgeois]

Christoph

Welcome!  Just in case you miss it, I just sent an IM asking about your knowledge of possible designs by Max Behr in Germany or of online archives that I might be able to search for this information. Help!

Thanks,
Mark

[Stuart Hallett]

A few comments on french courses.

Chantilly & especially Morfontaine will deservedly always be hovering around the top spot. IMO, Fontainebleau needs just a little attention to join them. St-Germain is an extremely solid golf course with bundles of charm, perhaps deserves better than 44th, although I am biased  .
As for Medoc, I hear that Bill Coore has been back recently to rip out a lot of scrub and improve other areas, should be interesting. The south west of France can get hot, & I suggest that the overwatering combined with bare patches is due to bad irrigation design. 

My main concern is the continuous overrating of some courses.
Golf National will keep climbing as the FFG runs the place and a listed judge claims to have designed the course. Why don't they just put Golf National into 1st or 2nd place and spare us from their rather efficient lobbying.
Seignosse is another example, I just don't understand. I live just up the road & even my wife felt sea sick the first time we drove past. Some of the worst shaping I've ever seen !!
Nimes Campagne must also have a good network. A course in very bad condition that could have some charm with major renovation works, however, the potential is very limited and certainly not worth a top 100 place. I know plenty of other french courses that deserve more, maybe not in this list as I don't know enough European courses outside of France.

Just some thoughts ...

[Alfonso Erhardt]

About the Spanish courses:

 - Club de Campo was originally designed by Mackenzie Ross (and Simpson?) and opened in 1932. Apparently a very tough course at the time.  The course was completely destroyed during the Spanish civil war (36-39) and Arana laid out the existing course in 1956. It is not laid out in any similar manner to the original, as property boundries changed over time.

 - Puerta de Hierro has two courses: The upper, which is a mix of Colt (1914), Simpson (1948) and Harris (1966) holes (although these were routed by Simpson). This course had bunkering and tees redone by Kyle Phillips in 2000. The lower course was laid out in 1996 by Kyle Phillips after some property was lost to a nearby highway and includes Colt, Simpson and Kyle Phillips holes.  I guess it is the upper, which is where most pro and amateur events were held in the past which is the rated one, although the lower is more of my liking.

Spanish courses ranked in a strange way, but looks like those which regularly hold pro and amateur top events (Sotogrande, Valderrama, San Roque, PGA) are ranked ahead of other clubs which don't have that exposure (Puerta de Hierro, Las Brisas, Neguri, Montecastillo, Sevilla).

Cheers

[Christoph Meister]

Golf World has issued its 2003 ranking of the courses of continental Europe.  Here it is.  I've attempted to identify what we might describe as courses from the classical age with an asterisk.

64 Lausanne, Switzerland -4
70 Ljunghusen, Sweden +12
74 Bled CC, Slovenia -2
89 Oslo, Norway +1
94 Feldafing, Germany -7
95 Kobenhavns, Denmark

I have several uncertainties:

Ljunghusen was founded in 1932, its architect Douglas Brasier but, knowing nothing of Brasier, I cannopt say whether it is a 1932 design.
Bled was founded in 1937 and its architect is given as Harradine, but in my edition of Cornish there's no mention of Bled.
Esbjerg was founded in 1921 and the architect is given as Frederick Dreyer.  Again, I no nothing of Dreyer so the design may not date from 1921.
Oslo was founded in 1924, but I can't find a reference to its architect.  It may be newer than that.
Feldafing was founded in 1926 and the architect is credited as Limburger, but, according to Cornich, limburger admitted that his early designs were terrible, so it may be a later design.
Copenhagen was founded in 1898 but I have no reference to an architect.  I've seen a little bit from the train and it looks attractive but I have no idea who built it or when.

Any clarification or comments would be welcome, but, remember, don't shoot the messenger.

Ljunghusen had 9 holes by the end of the 1930s, today it has 27, some holes have changed but there seem to be a few classic ones left...
Bled was opened 1937, designed by the Austrian von Gelmini-Kreuzhof (you see there are some classic continental golf architect still to be rediscovered - Noskowski is another one - he designed Karlsbad-Dellach first 9-Strassbourg). In 1975 Harradine layed out the holes again using the same 1937 fairways, changing some bunkers and adding a 9 hole course which is not a classic hence - I played the course in 2007 - it's most beautiful and certainly a classic!

Oslo is definetely a classic design, a few days ago I compared the 1930 layout with the current layout/routing and there are not many changes -
Feldafing is von Limburger and very classic...

Copenhagen golf course is in mid of the Ermitage Dear Park - a huge recreational area reminding me of Wimbledon Common but not as crowded..
the current course opened 1930 and was designed by an English architect - Abercrombie? - My Danish is to rusty as to fully understand the text in the centenary book of KGK from 1998.

Btw. Frederick Dreyer is a contemporary Danish Golf Architect and it seems that Esbjerg is not a classic layout any more - about the two Danish courses I would have to check with my friends from the Danish Golf Historical Society,

Greetings,

Christoph

[Steve Okula]

I don't know all the course on the list, but then no one does.

Of the few I am familiar with;

Valderrama  has just as much right to be #1 as anybody. The atmosphere; a dry, sub-tropical climate with cork oaks and olive trees; an exemplary routing with a variety of directions and separation, conditioning far superior to anything this side of the Atlantic, a history including a decade of Volvo Masters and the Ryder Cup and the rolling terrain, ideally suited and well utilized and views of Gibraltar and the Med, the understated elegance of Castellano, smoked ham and dry sherry, the hauntingly, high, lonesome wail of flamenco, the thrill of the bullfights, the dark, mysterious eyes of the señoritas...

If not Valderrama, then who?

Les Bordes (2) is a good solid course, that I found a chore to play. It is miles from greens to tees, there are some goofy green complexes built upon hillocks, and the seventh hole is a horseshoe par five around a pond configured in such a surealistic manner that, the further you hit your drive, the further you are from the green. On the plus side the conditioning is excellent, and it's never crowded, because it is to hell and gone out in the country, and the best way to get there is by helicopter from Orly.

Morfontaine is probably the best in France, at least, with some outstanding examples of Simpson's greens complexes. Chantilly (5) doesn't hold a candle to it, it's a tiresome day of driving over cross bunkers. Fontainebleau (15) has more potential than anybody, if only they would start a firewood company on the side. St Germain (44) is the sleeper, a pure Colt experience, takes you back to 1930, or thereabouts, the last Great Depression. It should be ahead of Chantilly and probably half the other courses in front of it. Certainly it should be ahead of National Golf (43) in Turkey, a place I dearly love, but let's be honest.

El Saler is cool at #6, and Sotogrande at #7 cannot be denied, like Valderrama's junior parther just down the hill.

There are some others there I know, but arguing weather a course should be 55th or 83rd seems banal.

Stuart Hallett, give me a call sometime to let me know how you're doing.

[Cristian]

If I am correct the 2003 listing is the last one that was published by Golf World. Although it has its flaws as illustrated by other posters, does anyone know of an alternative ranking which is at least equally credible?

It would be especially interesting to see where new projects have emerged and how they are doing against the rest.
 

[Paul Nash]

Quinta Do Peru in Portugal at 61! I was not impressed by this course - it was in poor condition and quite uninspiring. It does get better from twelth but there is no way that this would make the top 200 in the UK.

[Sean_A]

Well Paul, sounds like you feel the same for Quinto Peru as I do for PGA Catalunya.  Not a bad course at all, but no great shakes and certainly not worth mentioning in a list.

Ciao

[Paul Nash]

Hi Sean
I have heard a lot of great things about PGA Cat - several people raving about how good it is. I would love to play it to form an opinion. What was it about the course that you thought was poor?
Cheers
Paul

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Mark thanks for getting this topic going.

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