[Marty Bonnar]

Bear with me, this'll take a moment or two to build.
I've just watched Jersey Boys (the movie) for the first time. It's a really good movie, if a little 'stagey' due to the conversion from theatre to movie theatre.
What struck me most was the (DOH!) Music. Once they'd found their groove, those boys were as tight as a band can be. Incredible tunes, gorgeous harmonies, great musicality, just lovely.
Here's the thing: Being a musician of sorts (some might disagree), I've been such a pretentious, critical, dismissive prick about some music since my teens/early twenties that i wouldn't listen to or buy. Stuff which didn't fit into my little 'field of acceptability', which was mostly Rock, punk, new wave, then deep classical, jazz and obscure weirdness, was simply, to me, not worth the listening to. Certainly not, people like Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons!
Right, you're maybe starting to guess where this is going. Through the course of my life, there's been golf courses which have gone through similar metamorphoses. I can think of a few which, when I was young, were either beyond my means (Gleneagles) or my ability (Carnoustie) or geography (Cypress Point) which , one way or another, arrived in my life given the chance to play. Let's call them the Supergroups. Big, famous, ostentatious even, they taught me about the game like watching Clapton or Hendrix taught me about music. Funny there, the auto correct wanted to turn Clapton into Clayton! However, I digress.
Then there's the courses I grew up on. Wee Nine holers, working men's clubs like Bathgate (despite its humble status, home of TWO Ryder Cup captains), Greenburn, Polkemmet. Unheard-of courses, much like those gigging bands who play tiny venues for no money every week mostly for the love of the art, but who will still contain at least one superb musician. They're the clubs and courses which I now realise taught me about simplicity, frugality and making the most of what you've got with the limitations of your budget and site. If you can't afford the Stratocaster, buy the clone!!!
So there we are. I know I've posted about music/golf before, but this was another thought. Horses for courses, take in all of your influences, be flexible and open to suggestion.
Most of all though, really truly love the thing that you love most.
Thank you,
Jean Paul Bonnar.

[Peter Pallotta]

Nice one, Marty. As brief a response as I can manage:

My wife (who is very musical and has a terrific ear) and I are in the car, listening to the jazz station. A small group I don't recognize comes up, playing some swing/Dixieland. I turn up the volume, hoping a clarinet will be in the mix.

Sure enough in comes a clarinet. I can sometimes recognize after a few notes the style/sound of a number of the top players; and although I can't recognize who this one is, I can hear that he is technically an excellent player: fast, and fluid, with great command of his instrument.

But after the first chorus, something doesn't seem right. I find myself getting a little bored, and then even a little annoyed, but I can't put my finger on it -- I should be enjoying it, he's doing everything "right" and playing the changes and using the high and low notes and everything in between, but it's unsatisfying somehow.

Well, the solo ends and we get to a stop light and I turn to my wife with a kind of confused/questioning look; and both reading my mind and understanding my complaint, she nods and says:

"It sounded like he didn't mean a word he said -- and like he'd said it a thousand times before".

That was it.

And that IS it with gca, I think -- big course, small course, modest and low to the ground or massive in scale, old and classic or in the modern idiom:

If the architect doesn't mean it, if he isn't doing it as if it were the very first time, it will show. Golfers, including me, might not be able to put their finger on it or put it into words, but we'll know.

P     

[BCowan]

Wow, that was a brilliant post Peter.  Maybe we are more music snobs then golf ones.  Marty's analogy to one great musician in a group does the trick to satisfy most times was most excellent.

[Marty Bonnar]

Heheh.
I just KNEW one of the guys whose name ends in a vowel would SO get this.
Your comments about getting bored are so equally applicable to playing a round of golf, aren't they?
We need, maybe crave, excitement in golf as much as music. In my mind, that only comes from variety, the development and investigation of themes and melodies (shaping and angles?), tones, repetition and innovation, etc, etc.
Maybe someone should give Lloyd Cole the opportunity to assist in golf course design!
Cheers,
F.

PS maybe you should get your wife to post here. Sounds like she'd be way more valuable than you!!!
 

[MCirba]

Thanks for sticking around these parts, Mr. Bonnar.  Where else could you play such a enlightening and inspired solo for our pleasure?

[Marty Bonnar]

Thanks for sticking around these parts, Mr. Bonnar.  Where else could you play such a enlightening and inspired solo for our pleasure?

Are you GWVES (guys with vowel ending surnames) in some kind of weird brotherhood?
Oh yes, wait a minute. You're members of a stupid golf course architecture website discussion group.
 
Best,
M.

[Sean_A]

Love or hate the results, there are few things worse than listening to a cover which hasn't been stamped on by the current performer.  The same is true of golf architecture.  Solid, competent architecture which can be had most anywhere even if good is to me a trial.  I want to know I played something by an architect, not played something an architect thought would do the job.  Give me a bit of what you think rather than rehashing an architectural/musical theme.


I still recall the first time I heard FLC's cove of Crazy Train.  The opening ba, ba, ba came on and I tilted my head in a WTF way?  When the singing started nothing but a smile creased my face. 



Ciao

[BCrosby]

Interesting stuff Peter. The relevance of a musical solo or an aria to golf architecture is on the money. Someone might have played the same basic notes many times, but the good ones make it seem as if they are new and being discovered for the first time. 


My wife is the opposite of yours when it comes to music. For all of her many charms, she is a reliable counter-indicator. Example: last night I was listening to an old CD of Elizabeth Schwartzkopf singing Mozart arias. (Transcendental. How a human being wrote the music is beyond me.) In any event, she asked from the next room who was "doing the screeching" or something to that effect. I asked her to sit and listen for a minute. Nothing. Nada.


The parallels with golf architecture are obvious here too. There are people, maybe most people, who don't give a fig about good architecture. My regular golf group fits that category. You can point out features you think are interesting, walk them through a hole or two. Nothing. Nada.


Bob 






   

[Marty Bonnar]

Great, Bob.
"doing the screeching". The woman clearly only has good taste in men!
If MacK is the Mozart aria, who might be the screech???
F.

[Bill_McBride]

Thanks for sticking around these parts, Mr. Bonnar.  Where else could you play such a enlightening and inspired solo for our pleasure?

Are you GWVES (guys with vowel ending surnames) in some kind of weird brotherhood?
Oh yes, wait a minute. You're members of a stupid golf course architecture website discussion group.
 
Best,
M.

Did you know that "McBride" ends in a vowel?  Okay, it's silent but still...

[Jim Franklin]

This is a fantastic analogy. You really can tell when someone in any line of work just "packs it in". But you can also tell when someone with a passion for what they are doing is in your presence. Folks like Bill Coore, Tom Doak, Gil Hanse, Mike Devries, that spend days on property while the work is being completed, really enhance the outcome of a golf course. I know I am leaving out other passionate architects on this site and I apologize for that. It is the guy that comes in Day 1, routs a course, and isn't seen for months only to receive his check, that you can feel the blandness of their courses. Passion is key to success in any line of work.

[Thomas Dai]

Elevator music is to music is what courses designed by.........*........are to golf courses?



* insert name you consider appropriate


Atb

[George Pazin]

This is a fantastic analogy. You really can tell when someone in any line of work just "packs it in". But you can also tell when someone with a passion for what they are doing is in your presence. Folks like Bill Coore, Tom Doak, Gil Hanse, Mike Devries, that spend days on property while the work is being completed, really enhance the outcome of a golf course. I know I am leaving out other passionate architects on this site and I apologize for that. It is the guy that comes in Day 1, routs a course, and isn't seen for months only to receive his check, that you can feel the blandness of their courses. Passion is key to success in any line of work.

My first gut instinct on this is to say, yep, kudos.


However, upon a bit reflection, I will add this:


Sometimes there are people who are passionate and trying as hard as anyone, but for whatever reason, just can't get it done. There is a kid - heck, he's no kid anymore, over 30 - who used to work for me that I just love. He is a giant of a man (6'7", 300+), as passionate as anyone I know about many subjects. He recently gave me a CD his band recorded. It does nothing for me. Nothing, nada. But to him, it's the world, and I respect that tremendously.


-----


As to the original post, I guess I concur - horses for courses and open minds and all that. But I think too often people claim open mindedness while really what they're saying is, I have no effin idea - no standards, no principles, no thoughts, just a claim on the whimsical. I see this when I read reviews from people who seem somewhat defensive in nature, praising something they know deep down most wouldn't. Can't say I understand that, but that's probably how I am in real life, discussing things in person... no guts to state the truth.


Just mho, your mileage may vary. Who used to say that on here?

[Sean_A]

George

I read the last paragraph three times and I can't quite get to grips as what you are saying.  Care to take another shot...it might be good stuff 

Ciao

[Tony_Muldoon]

These were the words I was trying to recall at the post Buda round over Rosses Point.


Turning and turning in the widening gyre
     The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
     Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
     Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
     The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
     The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
     The best lack all conviction, while the worst
     Are full of passionate intensity.




Sadly one man's conviction is another's passionate intensity. Nothing harder to understand to seeing someone give their all in what you consider to be a worthless venture. 

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