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Dan Kelly

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Re:What is the USGA protecting & preserving?
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2003, 04:35:50 PM »
What I would like to know is:

WHAT ARE THE IMPEDIMENTS TO IMPLEMENTING THESE CHANGES ?

Oh, no! Patrick has learned how to do boldface!

Great question, though.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

JohnV

Re:What is the USGA protecting & preserving?
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2003, 04:58:06 PM »
Calloway sued the Royal CANADIAN GA in a CALIFORNIA court.  The Court rightly threw out the suit.

The USGA has a COR Rule.  They have proposed rules for length of club and size of clubhead, which will probably take effect in the new year.  All this will help stop the increases.  But, there are still not restrictions on shafts, which I would like to see (not sure how to do it though.)

Daniel, as for Sam Snead's putter, there weren't enough of them out there for a lawsuit to mean much and the times were different.

They have rolled back the maximum distance a ball can go with their new test procedures.  But, in saying that no current balls will be dropped from the conforming ball list, I wonder, do none currently go the maximum or will some balls go more than the new maximum and still be grandfathered?

I found an article on the Brooklyn Eagle archives that was written on Sept 8, 1902 which says that the Rules makers are thinking about making rules for a standard golf ball.  Why?  Not because the new rubber cored ball goes to far, but because it takes away the advantage of the longer hitter as it narrows the distance between him and the shorter hitter.

Some wanted no standard, some just a weight and size standard and some a standard on construction materials.

"They (standardizers) hold that the new rubber-filled balls confer an advantage on the weaker players, inasmuch as a miss-hit ball, if straight, goes farther than a gutta percha ball.  It is also admitted that a short driver, if he hits straight, drives more than a proportionate distance farther than the long driver, both playing with the rubber-filled ball."

They then go on to state that this new ball is spoiling present courses by making the holes too short.

The other side argued:

"Against these contentions it is urged, first, that it is sufficient to establish the size and weight of the ball as in other games and since there is a mathematical limit beyond which it is physically impossible to propel a ball of the present size and weight, which has almost been reached, that it is against human nature to prevent its attainment."

Then later:
"Finally, that in cases where holes are spoiled by the use of the new ball, the proper remedy is to rearrange the hazards or alter the tees."

The final paragraph is:

"To our mind, the only contingency which would justify the establishent of so drastic a standard as the opponents of new balls  propose would be the invention of a ball that entirely defeated the superior skill and strength of an opponent, or which made the game impossible in the spaces at present devoted to its pursuit.  Nobody has suggested that the new balls do either of these things."

Today people argue that the opposite of the first reason is a reason for limiting the ball.  The second is now the valid reason for scaling back the ball, if it was true for all golfers.  But, it really is only true at the highest level.  So, I guess we can continue as is or we can bifurcate.

DMoriarty

Re:What is the USGA protecting & preserving?
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2003, 05:28:01 PM »
There are absolute limits.  It is not possible for a human to carry a golf ball 400 yards at sea level with allowed equipment.  It isn't.
I know you think the ball just keeps going farther and farther, but I can assure you if every boast of "ten more yards" as a result of some driver/shaft/ball type/dimple pattern/tee/magic swing move/swing thought netted those ten more yards I would hit it past the moon.
When you hear "additional twenty yards" be sure to ask, "as opposed to what".  Golf balls today don't go much (if any) further than the Slazenger 480 Interlock "marble" from the late 80s.  People's willingness to try distance balls has sure changed over the last 15 years.
I sense that we keep getting halfway to the end and we'll never get there.


John C,  We had this exact same discussion near the beginning of the season when you and others were scoffing at predictions that the technological advances (optimization is a technological advance) would again produce a big leap in distance this year.   Well the tour statistics show that you and the rest of the technology apologists were quite wrong.

Driving distances increased again this year by five (5) to seven (7) yards.    Similar to the unprecidented (for as far back as I have numbers) jump that occured in 2001.  

So now what?  You were wrong about us reaching the limit last year, but this year you are sure you are correct?  

And you theory that the pros are merely discovering old technology has sprung a large leak.  What, in 2001 the discovered Top Flite's technology, and this year the discovered Pinnacles?  What is next, ProStaff?  

Lets put it this way.  Assume we are back in the fall of 1992.  If I had said to then you that in a couple of decades, 13 year old girls will be hitting it within a couple of yards of where John Daly is currently hitting it, what would have been your response?  Wouldnt your response have been the same as it is now?   "Impossible.  Increases in technology will only take us so far.  Man still cant break 3:40 in the mile . . . ."
« Last Edit: September 17, 2003, 05:29:48 PM by DMoriarty »

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