If the Solheim Cup were played in a forest, and nobody was there to see it...

[Darren_Kilfara]

...would it make a sound?

Seriously, I'm amazed that the last few days have gone by with nobody starting a thread about the Solheim Cup - the controversy over the unfinished singles matches, Patty Sheehan's attitude toward Nilsmark's captaincy (leaving three players out of the matches until Saturday afternoon), the great foursomes match finishing Saturday evening, the rest of the matches themselves, or any comment whatsoever on Barseback GC as a suitable (or not) venue. (It appeared to have little or no architectural merit to speak of on television, in one man's opinion...) Is everyone really that uninterested in women's golf?

Cheers,
Darren

[Dennis_Harwood]

Was it on TV?

In todays world if something is not televised it "can not be very important, can it?"

I even looked (during an NFL halftime) and could not find it on my dial.

[DTaylor18]

It was on the golf channel live, so it started at around 1AM and finshed by mid day the next day.  Not the most convenient coverage, but I give them credit for doing it live.

[Darren_Kilfara]

Was it on TV?

In todays world if something is not televised it "can not be very important, can it?"

I even looked (during an NFL halftime) and could not find it on my dial.

It was certainly live on TV where I live (in the UK). I'd have expected it to be shown on tape-delay in the US *somewhere* (The Golf Channel if nowhere else), although live would have been a bit too much to ask for with the singles starting at around 2:00 a.m. EDT. The fact that you didn't know where and when it was on worries me, from an LPGA marketing perspective...

Cheers,
Darren

(EDIT: my post obviously crossed with DTaylor's.)

[Brian Phillips]

Well over 100 000 people attended the event so I would call it a success and the Americans got beat which always pleases me.

Brian

[BCrosby]

Darren -

I confess. I didn't follow it. Mostly because the Golf Channel replayed the tapes in the evening and I wasn't in much. There was very little coverage in our local papers.

What was the "controversy" this time? Was Sheehan's crying after the match - something I saw on Golf Central - related to it?

Bob

[THuckaby2]

redanman:

I watched a lot of it - and a lot of it LIVE.  Think about what that means here on the west coast... for example, the sunday singles started at 10pm SATURDAY NIGHT our time and continued until about 4:30am Sunday morning... I can't say I watched all of that, but I did get up at 3am and watched the remainder....

I saw a lot of the Thu-Fri matches also.

So there!  

In any case it was all on The Golf Channel, and was also tape delayed for showing at normal human times each following day also.

I was only mildly surprised there was no thread here - remember this place is supposed to be about ARCHITECTURE - but outside of that, women's golf doesn't get much interest in here unless they play against the men.  

My take was that the matches were pretty drab save for the Sat pm fourball excitement... singles were beyond anticlimatic, and I thought it was weak to call off all remaining matches once the Cup was clinched.  They don't do that in Ryder Cup - in fact seeing those remaining playing "just for pride" is actually very interesting...

I have no clue what any controversy was about, btw.  

And redanman is right - the coverage was excellent - very cool we got Sky TV commentary for large parts.

In any case congrats to the Euro ladies...

And good lord, never take on a Scottish woman in a putting contest.  

TH

[THuckaby2]

Well, sometimes the timing works out well for us... but events that start at 10pm and go all night are not exactly in our favor!

I'm a morning person myself also - been getting up at 4:45am to be at work by 5:45am for many years now.  So what I really like is how events in Europe generally work out for us... coverage comes on in the early afternoon their time, which means early morning our time... I absolutely love having the Open come on at 5am our time, for example, when I'm generally up anyway!

You know who I came away as a big fan of, btw?  Sophie Gustafson... her valiant attempt in carrying Dead Weight Davies in the fourball against the American Cutie team (Kerr & Kuehne) was inspiring.  My she played well... and the whole thing about her trying to overcome her stuttering... well... that to me made me root for her a lot.

TH

[mike_malone]

 Laura Diaz has the best ass in women's golf!!
   Oh excuse me!The battle between Diaz/her partner and Sorenstam/Pettersen was super.

     Did i mention Laura Diaz has a.........

[Robert_Walker]

I am getting tired of matches that do finish. The fans and the players need to be reminded that this is an individual game where individuals' records mean something.

I heard sports people saying that Love's match was meaningless last year at the Ryder Cup. For Love, I suspect that nothing could be further from the truth.

[JLahrman]

Quiz question:  What is a Hee-Won Han?  Answer below.

Unfortunately, nobody cares about women's golf.  And the group that you would think would be the ones to support it--women--would rather watch the men as well.

Women's golf has the same problem that the Senior Tour has.  And it's very simple.  When you want to see the best golf in the world, you watch the PGA Tour.  If people are going to get interested in other tours, those tours better have something else to offer whether it's personality, different courses, or hot chicks.

Here are the reasons I will watch women's golf or senior golf:

--Grace Park is near the lead.  Mama mia!
--There is a course that I'd like to see.  I watched parts of the one Women's Open at Prairie Dunes and some senior major at Aronimink because I'd never seen the courses before.
--There is a possibility of some bitch-slapping.  Amaccapanne vs. Wie for instance.
--I flip through the channels and there is an exciting 18th hole finish, like the Women's Open this year.  I hadn't followed the tournament a lick but the last hole was fun to watch.

You know a tour is in trouble when a major--A MAJOR--gets cancelled due to lack of a corporate sponsor.

The Solheim Cup was in a bad spot.  Showing something tape delayed doesn't cut it in the internet age (I didn't like them doing that with the Walker Cup, and I didn't even know who was going to win while I was watching), but who is going to get up at 5 AM to watch players who I wouldn't recognize if they passed me in the street play some tournament?  Not me.

Answer:  I have no idea, but it's fourth on the LPGA money list.

[Dan Herrmann]

The 4-ball matches on Saturday were perhaps the best match play I've ever seen on TV.  Would have been even better if Diaz made her put for a half point.

I was disappointed by Sheehan's captainship.  She had Diaz putt first, and forced her to worry about her opponent's line (Diaz's partner was away, and the captain had Diaz putt first to try to put pressure on Sorenstam.)

Sure - it's in the rules, but you usually don't see it because the occasions best use it are rare.

Makes you wonder what the future of US professional women's golf will be.  The game is be dominated by Europeans and Koreans right now, and there appears to be a vacuum of upcoming talent on the US side.

As far as architecture goes, the course looked pretty boring on TV, but the folks on-site really seemed to like it.

Other comments - Beth Daniel appeared to be a real jerk - she didn't want to complete her match after the cup was decided.  Her opponent was pretty upset about it, and hinted that it was because Daniel wanted to keep her cup record flawless.

Laura Davies career may be over.  She may be pulling an Ian Baker Finch.

Sorenstam is one of the best golfers in the world.

Mayday is right about Diaz.

[THuckaby2]

All great thoughts - concur completely - just a question re:

"Beth Daniel appeared to be a real jerk - she didn't want to complete her match after the cup was decided.  Her opponent was pretty upset about it, and hinted that it was because Daniel wanted to keep her cup record flawless."

I must have fallen asleep - I didn't catch that at all - and in the press all they said was the Euros wanted to end all matches once the Cup was decided, so they could party... That is VERY interesting re Daniel... and very disappointing.  Did Daniel really want to quit?  

TH

[Dan Herrmann]

I'm not completely sure about Daniel's intentions, but her opponent said that she'd offered Daniel a half, and Daniel didn't take it.  She said that she wanted to keep playing, but Daniel didn't.

We watched this interview twice (TiVo to the rescue!) because it was so surprising to us that Daniel wouldn't take a half.

It's kinda ironic, because I think they ended up giving Daniel a loss anyway....

[THuckaby2]

Very strange.  Very weak by Daniel.  Thanks!

TH

[Jeff Fortson]

What's the Solheim Cup?

[David Wigler]

To the original question, frankly if every Women's professional sport was on TV at the same time, then people would actually get yard work done.  The Women's soccer league finally folded after $100M in losses in 3 years.  The WNBA bleeds through $30M per year.  Women's golf is about as exciting as watching paint dry.  Women's volleyball isn't a sport it is simply the Playboy channel made for network TV.  Women's tennis was thought to be the savior but its ratings this year (Now that Anna retired) made Australian Rules Football on ESPN look like the SuperBowl.  Facts are facts.  Now all you left wing, hippy, clinton loving, Govenor recalling, west coast types, feel free to bash away.

PS - I have a daughter and love that she plays sports.  I can argue either way on Title 9.  I just do not see anything appealing about Women's sports on TV.

[THuckaby2]

Now all you left wing, hippy, clinton loving, Govenor recalling, west coast types, feel free to bash away.

I am all those things... but even I can't bash this thinking too much.  I did like the Solheim, but only because I love international competition and I'll watch freakin' yachting if it involves the USA against the world... BTW, you want to talk BORING?  I defy anyone to watch an entire America's Cup race without falling asleep.  But I digress...

For me what's going on matters more than the sex of the competitors... Thus I watch a lot of women's college soccer, because my daughter is very into it and my alma mater rules the nation at it.   I also watched a few WUSA games for similar reasons - we don't have many professional teams in San Jose and we had one in that, so it was more curiousity and devotion to my daughter and my city.  I'll watch a lot of women's events in the Olympics because it involves the good ole US of A.  So it goes...

In general, yes, women's sports are always going to be second-rate, can't argue that.  But there are other reasons to watch...

TH

[Rick Shefchik]

I watched the Golf Channel replay of the singles matches on Sunday night. Unlike almost any other pro sports event that's been shown tape-delayed, there was no reason to worry that I would accidentally find out who won ahead of time. Nobody mentioned it all day...

A couple of observations: for those who watched the Sunday night replay, what was with the wall-to-wall Nancy Lopez-in-the-studio commentary? Who cared? I wanted to watch golf, and instead I had to slog through her observations before and after every small segment of actual golf. Maybe they had to -- or wanted to -- blot out the Sky News coverage, but the message they were sending was that anybody who tuned in to watch women's golf didn't really want to see them play, but would rather have heard Nancy Lopez blather.

Patty Sheehan made a huge mistake leaving Hillary Lunke off the team. These international team matches always come down to putting -- clutch putting, like the kind Lunke exhibited for five days at the U.S. Open. Instead, the U.S. women putted horribly, and Sheehan's captain's picks -- including the winless Heather Bowie -- might have beent he worst of all. Janice Moodie couldn't have hit her ball well from tee to green, but she absolutely destroyed Kelly Kuehne with her putter.

At the U.S. Open -- without question the biggest event in women's golf -- four players contested: Lunke, Kelly Robbins, Angela Stanford and Annika Sorenstam. Lunke beat them with clutch putts. Of those four, three competed at the Solhiem Cup. One was conspicuously absent...

I guess she isn't one of the captain's buddies.

[CHrisB]

Out of 19 events, Hilary Lunke has only one top-10 this year--her U.S. Open win. She has missed 12 of 19 cuts, including 5 or her last 6.

The course setup at Pumpkin Ridge--firm and fast fairways, fairly receptive greens--allowed Lunke to get away with being one of the shortest hitters in women's golf, and position herself where she could hole some meaningful putts to win the tournament. Best performance of the year, in my opinion, and one of the best finishes to a major tournament in years.

But that hasn't and doesn't translate into success in other events on tougher courses tee-to-green. Yes, she can hit it straight and putt, which might make her a good alternate shot partner, but she probably isn't playing well enough right now to help the team. She's putting lights out (top-10 in putting) to still miss cuts.

So I can't really fault Sheehan for not picking her, but hey, if you're going to go over there and get waxed, what difference would it make?

[David Wigler]

but hey, if you're going to go over there and get waxed, what difference would it make?

Chris,

Having seen pictures of the US Team, please do not mention "Getting Waxed" in the same context.  It brings up a visual that makes me lose my lunch.  

[Jeff Shelman]

I covered the Solheim Cup a year ago at Interlachen and actually found it to be a pretty good event. The golf is pretty good, the players certainly cared about winning and it was interesting.

Because of that, I actually stayed up to watch a little of the first day (but went to sleep during the fog delay). As was mentioned earlier, the four-ball on Saturday was great golf and there were some great shots hit. I admitedly didn't watch much of Sunday because I played that morning.

TGC's coverage was really good (though I could've done with a little less of Val Skinner saying "we"). They showed damn near every shot of every match the first two days. That, for me, was great.

I thing I actually like about watching women's golf is that they're often times hitting the same club as I do. Watching the men and the crazy distances those guys hit it makes things difficult for me to relate to. I can't hit sand wedge 148 yards.

I guess I'm a pussy as well.

[David Wigler]

Shel,

It has nothing to do with being a pussy.  Shivas summed it up.  It has to do with watching the game at its highest level.  If I want to watch someone hit a 6-iron from 148 yards, all I have to do is go play any public golf course in Michigan on a Saturday Morning.  The round will take 5+ hours and I will watch the group in front of me hit the 148-yard 6 all day long.  I love watching the PGA tour hit the 148 yard gap wedge and spin it back ten feet because I cannot do that.

[JohnV]

David, given you last post, I assume you have no problem with the distance the ball is going today.

Obviously having worked on a women's golf tour for 2 years, I enjoy watching them play golf (I enjoyed going out for a few drinks on Sunday night with them even more.)  As it was, I didn't watch much of the Solheim Cup though.  Mainly because of the timing of it.  I should have set the VCR and watched it later, but I kept forgetting.

Women's golf can be very interesting and the Solheim Cup certainly looked better than the John Deere Classic this past weekend.

[JLahrman]

John, the problem is that you have to convince a whole lot more people that the Solheim Cup is more interesting.  I have nothing against the LPGA or women's golf in general, but I would personally watch the John Deere over the Solheim Cup.  I would have taken the Lancome Trophy and probably whatever Nationwide Tour event was on before the Solheim Cup as well, unless the Solheim Cup was at an interesting course.  I watched a little of the Interlachen event last year.  I can't tell you a damn thing about the tournament, but I did check out the course.

Women's golf has a serious branding issue right now.  The only idea they seem to have is to send players to miss cuts on mens' tours and hope the attention leaks over to the women's tour.  And I have nothing against the women who want to challenge themselves, but those who think that these are landmark moments in women's golf are kidding themselves.  They're gimmicks that aren't going to sell for very long.  I hope women's golf grows in popularity but I don't have a clue how to do it.  Does anyone?

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