North Berwick G.C.

« **Reply #50 on:** September 12, 2003, 05:27:00 AM »

I challenge any and all who have either seen or played North Berwick to hazard a guess (because that's all it could ever be, I'm sure) as to how much actual man-made construction went into that golf course.

A good place to start would be the green at "gate" (#16) because it really is so radical, or perhaps "redan". "Pit's" and "Perfection's" greens, green-ends and surrounds seem more obvious to me--they were probably just found much as they are now.

At this point when I see really neat and unusual architecture, if I have enough time, I try to study the surrounding area to determine what and at what point is undeniably natural and natural grade and then work back in towards the green or immediate surrounds to try to determine where nature stops and man took over if he did at all at a place such as North Berwick. How much of this old golf course do you think was just a "lay it down affair"?

« **Reply #51 on:** September 12, 2003, 11:00:55 AM »

redanman

Whenever one finds a discarded and unbroken tee on a Scotish golf course, the standard cry is:

"Och aye, there must be some Yanks on the course today!"

« **Reply #52 on:** September 12, 2003, 11:07:41 AM »

I have a noonish starting time at N. Berwick on October 23rd (after a quick go in the a.m. at Kilspindie) if anyone (Rich or FBD) would care to join me.

Reading this thread, I have a serious jones on.

Mike

« **Reply #53 on:** September 12, 2003, 11:15:36 AM »

Michael,
Grat pics!!!
There are so many great shots on this course!
The first par three #4? you know you must land it well short but the broken ground in front brings the unpredicatability factor into play.
The cross bunkers on 8 ar not a factor on a calm day but with the wind into you they are truly a factor.
Me thinks #9 is a great hole, reachable for long knockers like Huckaby but a wonderfully delicate pitch, particularly to a front pin, for us dinky old men.
Cheers
Stan

« **Reply #54 on:** September 12, 2003, 12:07:04 PM »

I liked #9. Just to show you how different it can play, I was talking to Jamie Slonis who played the course in August and I played it about ten days ago. Jamie's a ton longer than me but nevertheless I played that hole into a stiff breeze and some momentary rain with a good 2 iron, good 3 iron and good low punch from about 100 yards with a 7 iron and Jamie played the hole downwind with a driver and SW!! Driver and SW!! Jeesus, he must have driven the ball over the end of the wall!

« **Reply #55 on:** September 12, 2003, 12:14:01 PM »

OH man, that's the first time I've been called a long-knocker...

But yeah, 9 is reachable, particularly if one takes the left route.

In any case whitey you are right on - that is one hell of a tricky pitch, as I found out from other playings... that raised green and false front is tough. You know what else is tough? The inevitable putt back toward a front pin, after you've blow the pitch past... the fear of going back off the front is very palpable.

I can see real long-knockers playing 9 driver-sand wedge, maybe not even needing much wind to do so... Hell I got it to about 220 in... one of the guys in my group had less than 150. We didn't have much wind behind at all....

We played middle tees though - about 495. It's 510 from the tips.

You know another cool facet of #9? The pro tip in the yardage guide:

"Right hand route for safety makes hole longer. Left hand route only for the brave and accurate."

My lord, if ever there was a challenge... and if ever there was a CERTAINTY I would try the left route... it came after reading that on the tee!

TH

« **Reply #56 on:** September 12, 2003, 12:14:27 PM »

TEPaul,
Exactly, I played in a heavy air haar and hit Driver, 5 wood and a 60 yard wedge. I think that hole would add to any course it was put on.

« **Reply #57 on:** September 12, 2003, 12:25:04 PM »

Mike

Unfortunately (?) I'm probably going to be up in Dornoch on 10/23. As you get closer to the day, contact me again and I'll see what's what. BTW, played yesterday with FBD and he is a fine person and fine golfing companion. Whatever happens, enjoy!

« **Reply #58 on:** September 12, 2003, 01:00:50 PM »

Quote from: redanman on September 12, 2003, 10:58:34 AM

I carried it for the whole trip using it on 8 or so courses basically exclusively.

Redan:
Do you still have that tee?

« **Reply #59 on:** September 12, 2003, 01:18:48 PM »

Michael:
Great pics of The Pit, next time turn off the date stamp !

#9 definitely a cool hole. Poor drive, good 3-wood, nifty little pitching wedge to a front pin, damm near made a birdie.

I *really* liked #10. The tee box is up on top of the dunes, this is the first time you see the ocean (okay, the Firth) since the 3rd hole.

We played it with a medium tailwind and a front pin position. Only one shot would work: a cleanly struck wedge, just hard enough to clear the bunker. Anything landing on the green rolled off the back.

Come to think of it, there are no "weak" holes on the entire golf course.

« **Reply #60 on:** September 12, 2003, 01:49:04 PM »

Oh it one must be picky, number 1 with an odd driving area a blind green is a little weak. The world just gets better and better after that though. I felt blessed to have 2 rounds there this summer. I will be back again next year for more.

« **Reply #61 on:** September 12, 2003, 01:53:38 PM »

JB - good call re #1. But heck, think of it this way: if THAT is the weakest hole on the course (which I agree with), we're talking one pretty damn great golf course. Sure the drive on 1 is problematic - but the 2nd shot is pretty damn cool... and the green perched above the ocean, well... I for one can sure live with that as a weak golf hole.

BTW re that tee shot, I decided this last time to just fire a 3wood at the hill, along the seawall, shortest direction to the hole. This leaves a blind shot, but a very short one... the base of that hill really isn't a bad place to be. Somewhat risky shot for first tee, but God doesn't reward the timid.

TH

« **Reply #62 on:** September 12, 2003, 02:15:20 PM »

I like North Berwick a lot - and you're talking to someone who is MOVING to the town of North Berwick in several months' time, which may indicate that I'm perfectly happy to play all of my golf there. However, I can't support it for Top 100 status...there are simply too many ordinary holes out there, holes with tramline fairways and large, flattish greens. (Part of the reason that NB is so "fun", I think, is that it can be very flattering to one's scorecard in normal conditions.) The great holes are very great, but the ordinary holes are very ordinary. And while I love the 16th green, it really isn't playable enough to be on a course that wants to be taken seriously - I mean, the front tier is about the size of my dining room table, which would be OK except that they put the pin their sometimes.

The point being, there are courses which belong in Top 100 lists, and then there are those that don't. North Berwick is fun, but at the moment I don't think it's worthy. (Talk to me this time next year, and I'll give you a definitive answer...)

Cheers,
Darren

« **Reply #63 on:** September 12, 2003, 02:21:15 PM »

Darrren:

I think that's wonderful you're moving to North Berwick! Wonderful.

If the front tier on #16 is the size of your diningroom table then you have a very large diningroom table, a very large diningroom and probably a very large house to accomodate it all. My sense was the front tier is a good deal more square footage than the back tier and both tiers, including the rather narrow but deep swale is 57 yards long. No matter how you slice up any portion of that it would make for a very large diningroom table!

« **Reply #64 on:** September 12, 2003, 02:29:24 PM »

darren are you getting rid of your membership to the great Mac.

« **Reply #65 on:** September 12, 2003, 02:57:07 PM »

Quote from: Tiger_Bernhardt on September 12, 2003, 02:29:24 PM

darren are you getting rid of your membership to the great Mac.

Not for the forseeable future - not least because it's probably going to take a while before I can get into a club, East Lothianshire being a bit different from Argyll. I'd really love to become a member at Gullane (54 holes!), but we'll see what happens...

Cheers,
Darren

« **Reply #66 on:** September 12, 2003, 04:44:22 PM »

Bill - What a nicpic comment!?!? Jeeze, excuse me for sharing.

« **Reply #67 on:** September 13, 2003, 08:33:05 AM »

Darren:

Just go see Archie Baird for Gullane. Who knows maybe you'll even get into Muirfield--then we'll all come and bug you!

« **Reply #68 on:** September 13, 2003, 05:28:45 PM »

Quote from: Rich Goodale on September 12, 2003, 11:00:55 AM

redanman

Whenever one finds a discarded and unbroken tee on a Scotish golf course, the standard cry is:

"Och aye, there must be some Yanks on the course today!"

Yeah, but mostly because some Americans don't realize that courses over there are generally not green, so the unpainted tees popular here tend to be as hard to spot as a tee painted deep green is on most courses over here

« **Reply #69 on:** September 13, 2003, 06:09:08 PM »

[quote author=TEPaul

"Those last five holes are remarkable! The "Pit", "Perfection", "Redan", "The Gate", Point Garry-In" and the short little #18."

I count six!

« **Reply #70 on:** September 14, 2003, 03:51:49 PM »

Good--the more the better--I never could count very well. Me as anyone's marker without close checking always was the quickest way to get DQed imaginable.

« **Reply #71 on:** September 14, 2003, 07:11:13 PM »

How about the subtle and beautiful 12th? Rightfully highlighted by Tom Doak in his "Anatomy of a Golf Course".

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