Have I just played the perfect course for a 12-HCP GCA'er?

[Peter_Herreid]

I was very fortunate last week to play a tremendous course that has been profiled (both aerially and by Ran) on this site.  It was designed by a revered duo, but gets comparatively little buzz.  It is a brutal part of the country to get consistent conditions, but the grounds staff seems to have a good handle on "maintenance meld".  Albeit based on a few brief conversations and one visit, the membership, administration and professional staff seem to "get it", with respect to the history and pedigree of the club.  There is a significant history of major championship golf, including a tight and controverisal finish, although not recently...

This view greets those who successfull navigate a blind tee shot on a fairly short par-4


As one who "hits the ball to all fields", I appreciated the chances to hit around, under, and occasionally over the trees, and the other "corridors of excape"...

The course has many, many familiar features--with all the contours to work the ball that most players could want, enticing angles of play and lines of charm, a few carries to deal with, and green complexes with both dramatic statements and subtle contours, making two-putts not automatic.

Happiness is...

...a hole location in the swale of a Biarritz!

What does the course lack?  Well, that's why I qualified my subject line--for some, the course lacks sufficient length, with only a few par-4's over 400 yds and minimal, if any, elbow room to expand.  There appear to be a few corridors where lots of trees have been dropped in to protect the parallel holes, but these do not seem to significantly affect play, as they seem mostly in the vicinity of one or two teeing grounds...

The double plateau, with the hole location in the middle depression

The location the next day was on the small back wing, which (yikes!) backs up to a narrow road, that used to be in play, but is now out-of-bounds

It is not next to an ocean, or in a region blessed with many top-notch courses for comparison, and the surrounding views (if you can see through the humidity) are not much in the summer, but I bet the colors are awfully nice in a month or two!

In some ways, the club and course are like a living, breathing museum of golf architecture, and I can't imagine ever getting bored of playing this course.

Where is it?  Let's just say I forget how humid it gets here, between my visits back to my old hometown...

I'll post more pictures and some hole thoughts, if interested.

[John_Conley]

What course?

[Peter_Herreid]

Given that there is no AOTD today, I was going to wait to see if there were any thoughts or guesses, before revealing the course, but no....so...

This is St. Louis CC, about which there is a profile already in the Courses by Country section.

Not much interest, apparently, perhaps reflecting the realtively few numbers who might have played it...

[George Pazin]

Peter -

The lack of interest is because there is only a couple of us non-single digit handicappers on board!

Thanks for the report. Is the weather really that difficult?

[Peter_Herreid]

George--

What should one expect in STL in late August but hot and humid!

From some conversations with folks at a few of the courses there, it would seem that it is a real challenge getting and keeping the turf in order throughout the playing season.  St. Louis is in that transition zone, where it's not northern but not really Sun Belt either.  The other course I played during this visit had zoysia grass fairways, which made for very nice lies, but also had a zoysia mix in the rough, which reacted like a bird's nest would, with the ball nestling in all the times I hit it in the rough.

I was being somewhat facetious about the weather--you just deal with it, as do folks in Memphis, D.C., etc.  To be honest, it was more miserable when it was 88 degrees at 9pm at Busch Stadium for a Cardinals-Cubs game that same week...

Peter

[RJ_Daley]

Peter, looking at George Bahto's thread about courses without a road hole, I'd ask if you identified the road hole green and bunker scheme as it is reversed there?  Looking at Georges book, p158, SLCC certainly seems like the odd one out with variations of hole designs that were not copied frequently, like Crater, Dome, Ladue.  At least the names were not used as much.  Did you find mixed hole characteristics like a redan green on the Preperatory 1st hole?  

[Jim Franklin]

Peter -

What was the other course you played there? I was in St Louis last week also and played at Norwood Hills which had zoysia fairways. From your pictures it looks like Wednesday since it was overcast. Tuesday was unbearable at a sunny 100+ degrees.

[A_Clay_Man]

Hopefully this implies that more and more great courses will open up to whole new generation of those who couldn't afford it when these gems were "top clubs". Along with the bell shaped curve numbers breakdown from another thread, the 10-18 hndcper is a large chunk of the bell. SO, this technology is a good thing because it gets the premadonnas and smashmouth trash teeing it up elsewhere.

[Peter_Herreid]

Dick--

There were definitely some holes which showed hybrid characteristics at SLCC.

#15 could be thought of as a "Long"+"Double Plateau", and here are a few shots of #5, which might have been my favorite hole there which combines an Alps presentation from the fairway, with a Prinicipal's Nose, with a punchbowl green.

The view from the side of the hill, over the left Prinicipal's Nose, down to the 5th green


The view looking back, across a moat behind the green, across the green and to the outlines of the bunkers on the hill in front of the green


Ran's wonderful profile picture completes the view from around this green...

There were several greens that had a distinct Redan feel to them.  As Ran mentioned, the wonderful 14th hole with its wide open entry and sharp front left-back right tilt, and the 16th (obviously)...

...are just two examples.  The back half of the first green certainly ran away to the back, and seemed to be similar to the 10th at Oakmont in that respect, only 100 yds shorter!

With regard to the 4th, which is ostensibly SLCC's "Road" hole, Ran's profile noted that there was some thought to creating more of a true "Road" bunker in front, as the bunker there now is more to the right and is flatter and shallower.  However, the bunker complexes behind the green and the actual road just behind the right corner of the green do function similarly...

As one can tell, I loved this course, and it was all the challenge I could handle or want.


Mr. Hurricane--

I played at Bellerive on that very lovely Tuesday in the sauna-like conditions.  When I hit from the fairway, it reminded of the chunks of my zoysia-grass backyard flying up when we hit golf balls off it, or when we played football.  That rough was some of the toughest I've ever seen, as it was tempting to try to move something out of it, but it was tough like shredded up Brillo pads!

Peter

[Hunt]

Peter,

Bellerive on one day and St. Louis the next is about as far on either end of the modern vs classic spectrum as this region has to offer.

It's a shame the WGC was cancelled two years ago as I would have been interested to how the world's best would fare.

I believe they recently set the course up for a test run for next year's Senior Open. If conditions are firm, par may win that event. Would be far higher if they played all the back.