[Dan Kelly]

Have I missed discussion of this here?

http://www.linksmagazine-digitalissues.com/linksmagazine/great_destinations_hotlinks#pg29

[Adrian_Stiff]

#1 golf course in GB & I IMO now. This will make it #1 for many more.

[C. Sturges]

Thanks Dan for posting this.  Was there last month and they only mentioned redoing the hotel, not the golf course.  Some of the changes sound very interesting.  Wish they were doing more on the less dramatic holes.
chris

[Jon Wiggett]

Chris,

you are right. It is a shame that they are messing with three of the best holes on the course. Still I think I will wit till things are more concrete before judging the merits.

Jon

[Paul Gray]

Ever since I got a copy of True Links I've been unsure about Peper. His clarification that Turnberry was originally opened in 1951 and immediately called 'The Pebble Beach of Scotland,' coupled with his apparent dislike of a blind drive and, heaven forbid it, a hogback fairway, has not reassured me.

As for Trump, let's wait and see.

[jeffwarne]

Shilling for Trump
yikes......

[Ronald Montesano]

Sometimes the mighty don't fall. They simply age and wish to stay relevant, wish to matter. When a new age replaces their mastered age, the need for relevance increases exponentially.

[Tom_Doak]

For me the proposed changes are an admission that Turnberry is NOT the #1 course in the UK or even Scotland.  If it was, they wouldn't change it.  Can anyone imagine Pine Valley re routing three holes?

BTW, how does Mr Trump reconcile Turnberry's ranking with his fondness for the project he developed?  Usually he would just bash the competition but he can't bash his own course!

[Mark Pavy]

Besides Adrian's IMO, who said it was No. 1?

[Adam Lawrence]

Besides Adrian's IMO, who said it was No. 1?

Turnberry typically comes either top or very close to the top in the rankings lists produced by the British magazines. Birkdale is generally regarded by similar sources as England's top course; it is usually among the top 3 or so in GB in their lists. Muirfield is typically in the mix; St Andrew's sometimes. Maybe RCD too if you include NI.

See the current Golf Monthly list as a good example.

http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/courses/top-100-courses/top-100-uk-and-ireland-golf-courses-2012-5963

[Adrian_Stiff]

For me the proposed changes are an admission that Turnberry is NOT the #1 course in the UK or even Scotland.  If it was, they wouldn't change it.  Can anyone imagine Pine Valley re routing three holes?

BTW, how does Mr Trump reconcile Turnberry's ranking with his fondness for the project he developed?  Usually he would just bash the competition but he can't bash his own course!

Tom thats a ridiculous statement. Just because something is the best does not mean it can't get better.

[David Davis]

For me the proposed changes are an admission that Turnberry is NOT the #1 course in the UK or even Scotland.  If it was, they wouldn't change it.  Can anyone imagine Pine Valley re routing three holes?

BTW, how does Mr Trump reconcile Turnberry's ranking with his fondness for the project he developed?  Usually he would just bash the competition but he can't bash his own course!

Tom,

I'd be curious to know how you've managed to avoid working with Trump? Conscious choice or just waiting for the right project?

[David Davis]

I've seen these plans and they do look quite spectacular, maximizing usage of the coast line. Why not? It will bring in more American tourists guaranteed! I would find it hard to argue against it if the end result drives future revenues considerably. Get enough raters over there to re-review the course and it will likely jump into the Top 20 - I mean if Oitavos Dunes can be so high on the list perhaps we are even looking at Top 10 (please read in the intended sarcasm here).

I'm planning a March visit to see it before it goes under the knife as my only trip to date to Turnberry was cancelled last year.

[Thomas Dai]

I wonder what they have in mind for the runways, both short term and long term?
atb

[Michael Whitaker]

I'll have to go back through some old posts, but I thought I remembered many on this site panning Turnberry as a bit bland in places and somewhat of a missed opportunity with a few holes. Seems like Trump is going to work on that and create more "wow" factor and drama on the course. The new holes remind me of some that receive high praise here, like the 1st at Machrihanish, the 16th at Cabot Cliffs and the 6th at Cape Kidnappers. Don't know what exactly is wrong with that.

[Jim Sherma]

While Turnberry always looked like an exceptional location and a cool old hotel the course never really drew me to want to play it the way other courses have. Over the years I do not remember anyone really raving about the course in spite of its rankings and wasn't there fairly major modifications to the finish of the course prior to the last open there? I certainly do not remember any big uproars the way we had it over much less significant work at TOC last year. I for one am interested in seeing what architectural changes are made to the course. My concerns as they are have more to do with the prospect of a softer and greener presentation. Regardless of the architectural merit this outcome would likely keep me from paying the freight to play it in the future.

[Jim Nugent]

Besides Adrian's IMO, who said it was No. 1?

Turnberry typically comes either top or very close to the top in the rankings lists produced by the British magazines. Birkdale is generally regarded by similar sources as England's top course; it is usually among the top 3 or so in GB in their lists. Muirfield is typically in the mix; St Andrew's sometimes. Maybe RCD too if you include NI.

Interesting to compare that with the GCA unofficial rankings from five years ago.  Turnberry tied for 32nd in the world, along with Kidnappers, Pinehurst, Sunningdale Old and Lahinch. 

GBI courses ahead of it were:  RCD, TOC, Dornoch, Portrush, Ballybunion, Muirfield and Royal St. Georges. 

[Paul Gray]

Besides Adrian's IMO, who said it was No. 1?

Turnberry typically comes either top or very close to the top in the rankings lists produced by the British magazines. Birkdale is generally regarded by similar sources as England's top course; it is usually among the top 3 or so in GB in their lists. Muirfield is typically in the mix; St Andrew's sometimes. Maybe RCD too if you include NI.

See the current Golf Monthly list as a good example.

http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/courses/top-100-courses/top-100-uk-and-ireland-golf-courses-2012-5963

Adam,

Absolutely no reflection on you but I'm not sure that some of the Golf Monthly raters would know a redan from a cape hole.

[Adam Lawrence]

Besides Adrian's IMO, who said it was No. 1?

Turnberry typically comes either top or very close to the top in the rankings lists produced by the British magazines. Birkdale is generally regarded by similar sources as England's top course; it is usually among the top 3 or so in GB in their lists. Muirfield is typically in the mix; St Andrew's sometimes. Maybe RCD too if you include NI.

See the current Golf Monthly list as a good example.

http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/courses/top-100-courses/top-100-uk-and-ireland-golf-courses-2012-5963

Adam,

Absolutely no reflection on you but I'm not sure that some of the Golf Monthly raters would know a redan from a cape hole.

So what? The magazine is there, it is what it is.

[Sean_A]

Turnberry?  I always wondered what could the course be like with
A
1. the routing extended down the coast to the Kintyre

2. holes route to and from the coast rather than along it

There really aren't that many compelling holes at Turnberry and they come fast and furious.  It barely makes my top 50 GB&I.  I am all for changes which inject a bit of class into the design.

Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

For me the proposed changes are an admission that Turnberry is NOT the #1 course in the UK or even Scotland.  If it was, they wouldn't change it.  Can anyone imagine Pine Valley re routing three holes?

BTW, how does Mr Trump reconcile Turnberry's ranking with his fondness for the project he developed?  Usually he would just bash the competition but he can't bash his own course!

Tom thats a ridiculous statement. Just because something is the best does not mean it can't get better.

Adrian:

I didn't say it couldn't get better.  I think the course could definitely get better, but I don't hold it in the same high esteem that some such as yourself do.

However, if Turnberry was really acclaimed as the #1 course, do you think Donald Trump would change it and risk that ranking to boost his own ego by trying to improve it?

Maybe he would, but I think I'm safely on record that the best courses in the world deserve protection from such stuff.  I can give a pass to Turnberry because I think it's overrated now, but if somebody was proposing similar changes to Pine Valley or Merion or Sand Hills or The Old Course, I would try to talk them out of it, instead of trying to get the job.

[Mark Pavy]

I like the proposed changes and give credit to Trump and his architect for wanting to incorporate the most spectacular part of the property so it features more in the playing of the course.

Tom, I think you can relax, I don't think anyone's going to be proposing a spectacular stretch of cliff hugging ocean carries any time soon at the courses you mentioned.

[Paul Gray]

I like the proposed changes and give credit to Trump and his architect for wanting to incorporate the most spectacular part of the property so it features more in the playing of the course.

That view may be influenced by the potential for impressive 3D imagery.  

[Jon Wiggett]

It is always disappointing when people seem to equate spectacular setting to good GCA. The two have nothing to do with each other. I do not care if the holes are more spectacular only that they are an improvement and as 9-11 are three of the best holes there I am not holding my breath.

Jon

[Mark Pavy]

It is always disappointing when people seem to equate spectacular setting to good GCA. The two have nothing to do with each other. I do not care if the holes are more spectacular only that they are an improvement and as 9-11 are three of the best holes there I am not holding my breath.

Jon

Whilst I understand the point you're making, I think it would be naive to completely disassociate the two. Whether it's right or wrong, the fact remains that the average golfer likes 'spectacular'.

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