[BCrosby]

Rather than spending lots of money on hiding cart paths, give them an architectural function in the way a hole plays.

Like the totally ridiculous, stupid and outside the box Road Hole.

Bob

[Steve Okula]

Suppose you had a par five, in the shape of 180° horseshoe, but two horseshoes,  starting from the same tee and finishing on the same green, one you could play counter clockwise and the other clockwise, the same distance and amount of hazard either way.. The entire hole would be in the shape of a circle, the ultimate split fairway. You decide on the tee if you want to play a fade or a draw.

The title of the thread does include "stupid".

[Joe Zucker]

Suppose you had a par five, in the shape of 180° horseshoe, but two horseshoes,  starting from the same tee and finishing on the same green, one you could play counter clockwise and the other clockwise, the same distance and amount of hazard either way.. The entire hole would be in the shape of a circle, the ultimate split fairway. You decide on the tee if you want to play a fade or a draw.

The title of the thread does include "stupid".

As silly as that sounds, I bet this hole would be fun to play.  The split fairway at the Kampen Course is a less drastic version of this.  If I am picturing the hole correctly, there is not much of a difference between the right and left fairway from the tee.  Depending on which way the wind was blowing would probably dictate which direction I would go.  And if you happen to be riding that day, hopefully your rider makes the same choice as you.

[Matthew Rose]

In high school we went on a family spring break trip to Hilton Head and asked if we could play the geometic Cupp thing. The pro shop clerk talked us into playing the dreadful Arthur Hills track instead. We all shot a million, lost balls left and right and were generally miserable. I wish I had lobbied harder... but I got outvoted 2-1.

[David Davis]

I'm thinking a giant version of a wild mini-golf layout, where you actually tee off of course and play normal length holes but ones that have all the same features of the best mini-golf set-ups. Including power slots where you hit into the hole with the drive and it comes out around the green but of course this would be a risk reward type. Perhaps everything from clown heads you need to hit into.

Actually I've not been to Vegas in about 15 years, someone is going to tell me this exists and it's a Fazio design right?

_____________________________________


The other would be a mobile course you could take anywhere into your favorite dunes and a company would set it up a month here and month there with no adverse effects to the environment allowing you to rollout greens and fairways landing areas rapidly. This might have to be some kind of fake turf. I can think of some awesome places to do this. If you kept the Pine Valley concept in tact in might be doable within reasonable costs and I bet if you were allowed to do minimal trimming you could come up with some awesome courses.

I mean if we are fantasizing....

[jeffwarne]

Rather than spending lots of money on hiding cart paths, give them an architectural function in the way a hole plays.

Like the totally ridiculous, stupid and outside the box Road Hole.

Bob

very cool idea
There are of course holes like this accidentally
pair them with Jason's speed slot idea

[Tom_Doak]

Rather than spending lots of money on hiding cart paths, give them an architectural function in the way a hole plays.

Like the totally ridiculous, stupid and outside the box Road Hole.

Bob

very cool idea
There are of course holes like this accidentally
pair them with Jason's speed slot idea

The course I grew up on [Sterling Farms] had such a hole, the 7th.  It was a dogleg right par-4 around trees, and most people played way to the outside of the dogleg so as not to be stymied by trees for the approach.  Sometimes, though, I would play for the cart path on the inside corner, hoping for an assist on the short-cut.  It seldom worked out but I kept on trying. 

[Tom Walsh]

Hogan's other dream course- no putting, 18 flags. Match play, closest to the flag wins.

[Buck Wolter]

At holes 3,6,9 and 12 there is an alternate hole that acts as a passing lane where faster players can play through slower groups without disrupting anyone.

[Ulrich Mayring]

Interesting idea, but the overtaking players, once they cut back onto the regular course, will collide with the group in front of the slow players.

Ulrich

[Sean_A]

Rather than spending lots of money on hiding cart paths, give them an architectural function in the way a hole plays.

Already done my friend, its called no cart paths. 

Ciao

[Mike Hendren]

Based upon the air/water bubble at PGA National, how about sandpile on the green that could be routinely moved to protect different sectors.

Bogey

[Joe Hancock]

Based upon the air/water bubble at PGA National, how about sandpile on the green that could be routinely moved to protect different sectors.

Bogey

A step further, lets implement a series of underground pipes to create a random bubble generator. Not only could it's location be random, but so could the timing.....awesome idea, Bogey!

Heading to the design desk now to get started on this....and don't even try, I just copyrighted the idea.....

Joe

[Mike Hendren]

Joe, I believe the manufacturer of Whack-A-Mole already owns the patent.

Mike

[Lyndell Young]

Hogan idea with a twist.Since putting is what slows up play and greens add most expense on the course how about play Hogan style to designated flags no greens until flag length from pin location for each hole score. Then at end of round you have a large putting green where you putt to 18 cups and add to your course score. 18 holes for shotmaking one large undulated green for putting. How about that Jason!

[Jason Thurman]

Lyn, the recent weather around here resulted in my introduction to indoor golf. They charge hourly for use of their simulator, and the putting is nonsense - every putt is hit over dead flat "turf" to the same cup. I recall thinking a few minutes in that things would go much faster if you could just hold off on putting until the end and do it all at once, or skip it altogether. Of course, at a business that needs to make money, that wasn't an option.

But I love your idea for the reasons you mentioned - it would save money and save time.

[Jason Thurman]

Inspired by the thread on trees and whether they make courses safer or not...


How about using walls running down the sides of holes to block balls from hitting players in neighboring areas of the course? The walls could be strategically placed so that they're not a solid 400 yard long monster, but instead located in spots of greatest concern. The bonus would lie in the shotmaking options they would create - players could bounce balls off the walls toward targets. It would be like indoor soccer for golf!


Speaking of engineering...


On a downhill hole, how about something that looks like a large water slide that starts 30 or 40 yards from the tee and runs downhill all the way to the green or some other beneficial location? Players could hit it with just a pitch shot, but it would be risky as missing the chute would leave a VERY long second shot (or perhaps you'd design it so that missed shots resulted in a lost ball or something like that). However, if you hit your shot into the chute, it would funnel hundreds of yards to Position A and give you a huge advantage over your opponent. Longaberger should add this to their fourth hole - I'll offer the idea to them free-of-charge. The Virtues of this simple addition should be obvious.

[Kalen Braley]

The idea I have is similar to Shivas' flyer strip and was actually implemented on a course here in Utah, so the concept isn't original to me

The Landing zone for the first 250 yards off the tee is your typical flat fairway kind of stuff.  Then from 250 to 300 on most holes the architect put in heaving bumps and mounds and pinched fairways.  So for the longer/better players who hit their tee shot in that area, they run a fairly high risk of having a very awkward lie to hit their next shot from.

Then after 300-310 yards, the fairway is once again mild again, which benefits most lesser players who can often avoid this area with their second shots.

I thought it was an interesting way to challenge better players without having too much impact on lesser ones.

[Pat Burke]

Take a course with wide fairways...
For a hypothetical "tour" event, grow rough strips and rough islands in the center lines of the wide fairways,
creating two (or more) narrowed fairway options.
With creative hole locations rewarding the proper angle, and the narrow demands placed on the tee shot for
a tour player, you can toughen up a golf course, create strategic angles, and not fark up the course for real golfers.


The rough could be a mix of deep and "flyer producing".


I hated playing courses that narrowed fairways taking away angles, but also hazards (Merion and Pebble fairway bunkers)

[Kirk Gill]

Super-short "whiffle ball" courses where you have to hit crazy curving shots or hit over small buildings and the like. If you hit short, your ball rolls down into a gutter that brings the ball back to you or otherwise sticks you in a place where you have to hit over/under/in between obstructions. Course strategy could be created where only those who can really control the trajectory of the ball could get to places where subsequent shots are easier. No putting, but holes of various sizes in walls, ceilings, roofs, or protected areas. Everyone plays the same basic club and ball. Temporary, easily alterable "courses" could be set up on indoor playing fields for winter play. It's putt-putt with a pulse.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Kirk,

In my life, I have seen a few dog leg par 3 holes that are along the lines of what you suggest.....

[Dan Kelly]

Inspired by the thread on trees and whether they make courses safer or not...

How about using walls running down the sides of holes to block balls from hitting players in neighboring areas of the course? The walls could be strategically placed so that they're not a solid 400 yard long monster, but instead located in spots of greatest concern

Call the course "Trump National Rio Grande."

[James Brown]

1.  Would be interesting to see a periodic use of super big cups, which would allow some crazy pin positions as well?


2.  What about a real speed slot in the center of the fairway, with reduced watering or whatever it takes to add 20-30 yards of role if you hit it in the middle 10 yards?

[Bill_McBride]

The leader in the clubhouse for at least the past decade has to be the Shivas Flyer Strip.   If I recall correctly the concept was to strategically place strips or patches of rough in the ideal landing areas. Not deep rough, but flyer rough, so that the better longer hitter who found the "flyer strip" would be unable to control the spin and thus would have trouble controlling his/her approach and keeping the ball on a firm green.

It was only my second favorite Shivas outside-the-box idea of all time.  But my favorite didn't directly involve architecture.

Ok, you've got me curious... What was it?  I've already admitted I never write a thing down, and I've have lots of cocked-up crazy ideas pop up and disappear just as fast over the years.   Banning practice swings?  Banning caddie advice? 

The fllyer strip in the long hitters' landing zone in the middle of the fairway  is a good, cheap, portable way to get them thinking about which side of the fairway to hit it  and give them spin issues on second shots for failure to execute --  without hurting the hackers, who usually like light "first cut" style rough.

Is this not what the Euros did at Valderrama's par 5 17th for a Ryder Cup?  It was tremendously artificial but did require two lay ups and a SW approach (Seve and JM Olazabal's strength?), and I recall Tiger hitting an approach that spun back into the hazard.


Without the stip of rough it's a whole different game. 

[Doug Siebert]

I kind of like the "cart paths down the middle" for the crabgrass courses, except those courses generally don't have cartpaths at all in my experience (they don't care if someone driving a cart digs up up wet turf)

But if you have to have concrete cart paths on every hole and the course is not going to be known for its architectural merits, why not make it known for its quirks?  At least it gives you something to shoot for - on most courses like that it doesn't really matter all that much where you drive it because there is no better angle from the fairway, and the rough is usually maintained short enough that there's not much reason to care about missing the fairway either.  Might as well try for the 50 yard bounce!

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