News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Philip Gawith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Pine Valley (pictures)
« on: November 19, 2013, 02:49:01 PM »
I was lucky enough to play Pine Valley in great weather about a month ago and thought i would share some of the pictures. I am not sure i have a great deal to add to the discussion so i will mostly let the pictures speak for themselves. Most of the pictures are from a bright morning but i have also included a few from the previous evening, hence the different light.

Apologies but they are not all as well focused as they might be....

I will post them in groups - in some cases i have indulged in a few pics per hole, but not for all of them.



The first tee



The tee shot



the waste area in front of the first - I love the light and the colour of this photo which gives a feel for the course and its vegetation..



the approach



...from a little closer in



This captures what feels like the "runway" impact as you approach this typically vast green - from about 100 yards in very flat/level.



the sharp drop off to the right (same on the left) is an early reminder of the theme of the course - if you make mistakes you are generally in a lot of trouble! The pictures don't really capture the slopes in the greens and why a three putt is always on the cards.

Philip Gawith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2013, 02:57:02 PM »


the drive on 2, a bit blurred but gives you a feel for the hole.



this gives a bit more sense of the epic second you must play, albeit this is from a long way back at the start of the fairway



an attempt to capture the size of this green...



tee shot on three



a view of this wonderful green from a little closer in. On the day we played Jordan Spieth played and the caddiemaster came to collect the flag as there were two holes in one in his group that day (to the front flag seen in the first photo).



The wonderful tee shot on 4 - don't even talk about the medal tee fifty yards back and below



the approach to four - one of the great views in golf



the fourth green from about 70 yards out



Looking back up four...

Philip Gawith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2013, 03:05:09 PM »


the moment of truth - waiting to tee off on 5!



not sure it gets any better, or more challenging







Tee shot on six - allegedly the first good birdie opportunity! Those with experience play conservatively left, many are snared in the bunkers as they bite off too much.



approach to six



Hell's half acre - a hard hole to photograph! I think the 15th, the other par 5, is a better hole.



approach to left green on eight



the right or alterrnate green, not in play on the day



view from behind on 8 - amazing how many of us missed the fairway on the left



another gorgeous looking hole - the 9th



10 - my favourite picture


Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2013, 03:16:10 PM »
Thanks Phillip.  Your pictures make the course appear tighter than I imagined, with the trees next to the tee possibly forcing one to start the ball on line.    However, I find my pictures often make tree lined fairways appear more narrow than they do in person.

Did you find the fairways difficult to hit?

Philip Gawith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2013, 03:16:49 PM »


tee shot on 11



approach to 11



view from behind 11



tee shot on short 12th



approach to short 12th. A good drive will be further out and not need to come over the bunker.



the 12th green, with quite severe front to back slope, dashes many hopes that the shorter hole will offer respite.



The approach to 13 - probably the best view on the course, and surely also the favourite hole of many?



a backward look at 13. Another epic green...



the short, or not so short, 14th



tee shot on 15 - start of a mission!



you have probably played two by the time you reach here...if you are in good shape.



tee shot on 16 - not for the first time, a long carry over waste, full of judgement and temptation.



approach to 16 - prettiest part of the course.



16 green with 14th green and 15th tee away to the right



 a view from behind 16 -that is the 15th fairway running up the hill in the background



the 17th green



the fabulous finishing hole



viewed from behind the green



the 18th green



the early morning view

Philip Gawith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2013, 03:19:03 PM »
Jason, a straight driver will not struggle to hit these fairways and the trees are generally not that much of a constraint early in the tee shot (some holes might be a bit of an exception, eg 7 and 9). that said, and despite the width, i missed my fair share!

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2013, 03:53:56 PM »
Philip,

Terrific, just terrific. Many thanks for taking the time to share these photos with us. Your photo of the 10th green really is a bit tasty. I can see why it's a favourite of yours.

Seeing these splendid photos reminded me of an old episode of Shells Wonderful World of Golf filmed at Pine Valley in 1962 between Byron Nelson and Gene Littler, so, I went and watched some of it again on Youtube - here's the link in case anyone else wants to have a peek - 10 minutes long - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNS6E9-NQPE - if folk do have a view, listen out to hear what club both players use for their tee-shots on the par-3 5th hole.

All the best.

Philip Gawith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2013, 04:13:24 PM »
thanks Thomas for that clip, it is quite salutary as you say to compare the clubs they were using back then. And Gene Littler's fate on the 5th will resonate with many who have stood on that tee!

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2013, 05:54:48 PM »
Thanks Phillip.  Your pictures make the course appear tighter than I imagined, with the trees next to the tee possibly forcing one to start the ball on line.    However, I find my pictures often make tree lined fairways appear more narrow than they do in person.

Did you find the fairways difficult to hit?

The corridors are huge. Looks WAAAAY tighter in pictures than it is...Now, a big miss and sure you can be in the trees but its a really wide course...

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2013, 06:11:40 PM »
nice!

thank you Philip
It's all about the golf!

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2013, 06:35:04 PM »
The views you describe on 4 and 13 as "one of the great views" and "best view" to me are not at all unique. They seem to be fairways lined with trees. Your pictures are excellent and define at least a dozen better views. If you have patience with me, can you elaborate on why you feel these two views are so memorable? I'll hang up and listen. Thank you, Philip.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Matt Glore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2013, 07:34:00 PM »
Fantastic pictures Philip!

I'd love to hear more about your day.  How long you were there?  What does the practice area looked like? 
Is the course on a large volume of land?

I've never played in this area of the country. 

Matthew Lloyd

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2013, 07:37:26 PM »
Amazing pictures, thanks for taking the time to document your round and sharing them.  My uncle played Pine Valley once, shot an 82 and vowed to never play the game again after this pinnacle.  Now I can see why he threatened to do that.

jonathan_becker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2013, 08:12:17 PM »
It's always great to see photo threads of the world's truly elite courses from each individual's perspective.  Pine Valley is definitely one of those courses if not the course.  Thanks for sharing

Ash Towe

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2013, 12:16:03 AM »
Philip,
Thanks for the photos.  Best set I have seen of this magnificent course.

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2013, 01:56:51 AM »
Bit disappointed to see you played off the girls tee on 18!
Cave Nil Vino

Philip Gawith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2013, 02:26:22 AM »
Ronald, it would appear that i have a soft spot for holes where you have a blind drive where you then mount a summit and a great golfing vista opens up in front of you. I am probably not alone in this. A vaguely similar analogy would be the 7th hole on the Old Course at Sunningdale - the drive is pretty forgettable but when you are top of the hill you get one of the very best views on the property. Another excellent example would be, albeit not tree lined, the 5th? at New South Wales.

in the case of the 4th, it is a difficult drive because you can get the angle wrong, so just to get into position to have a makeable shot to the green is some achievement. And then that shot itself is difficult even if you have hit a good drive - anything from a 3 wood rescue to a six iron, but most likely off a downhill lie if a shorter club. So there is a degree of challenge, and on top of that a powerful emotional sense, if that is not too strong a word, of playing a great hole. And you have just come off a great hole, and you know that in a few minutes you face maybe the greatest challenge of all on the 5th tee. All these factors inform my view.

As for 13, it is not a very controversial view that it is a great hole. Again, the drive is blind and not easy - but assuming you get to a decent spot, you again have a great golfing vista open up in front of you. And again, you know that only an excellent shot will get you home - you are probably coming in from 200 yards or so and either have to carry all the bunkers on the left, or bring it in from the right. Similar to four it is a combination of golf emotion and aesthetics, plus the technical challenge that you face.

 Maybe if you are sceptical it is because the photos do not do justice to the holes! And feedback from others would suggest the photos make the playing corridors look narrower than they are. But to say these holes are merely "fairways lined by trees" would be to sell them short by a big margin! I have lots of experience playing holes like that so i know the difference between golf holes with emotional resonance and those without.

Matt, i was there for two days/two nights, played the course twice and most of the short course once. The latter is ten holes, six or seven of which are mapped on holes on the main course. Mostly they are par threes, but not all. Whereas the main course may look narrow, in fact it it is not and the playing corridors are wide. Not so the short course where it is much easier to lose balls! There is a fabulous practice faciility a few minutes drive from the clubhouse. There are two different teeing areas and i think they move them around between morning and afternoon because of weather/maintenance factors. I am not sure how big the overall piece of land is but must be pretty large as the course is sprawling, there is a short course, a few properties, driving range - and yet no sense of anything being crammed in.

Mark, i would enjoy to play PV off the back, but would need to be slightly more consistent off the tee! But you make a good point because i hit one long drive off the other markers and that did reduce a big hole into a very manageable one with only a shortish iron approach.

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2013, 09:16:11 AM »
I get that photos can make a course appear narrower than reality but trees in bunkers: that can't be right, can it?
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Steven Blake

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2013, 09:22:34 AM »
This is shaping up to be a great day!!!  ;D Thanks for sharing.

Pictures do not do this course any justice but still awesome none the less.

Chris_Hufnagel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2013, 09:46:40 AM »



The first tee

Ok, so this has been on my mind for a few days now and I am sure someone here will tell me I am crazy...

But, I grew up caddying at a nice club.  I was fortunate to have a tough caddie master who taught me a lot about being a caddie, the game, etiquette, and how to generally conduct oneself on a golf course.  We learned the basics - where to stand, how to mark a golf ball, yardages, etc. - along with some of the more nuanced aspects of being a caddie.  I loved that job and it was a perfect introduction into the game I love today.

Today, I always walk (unless forced by a club rule or if my host wants to ride) and I generally take a caddie whenever they are available - both because I prefer the experience and because I want to support the great tradition of caddying.

Unfortunately, some caddie experiences are better than others - I think we all have great stories about the bad ones and hopefully just as many about the good ones.

So, here is what is bothering me and perhaps the picture above doesn't tell the entire story - but if I am interpreting the image correctly, we have four golfers on the tee with the caddies standing (one appears to not even be paying attention) by a bag drop some distance from the tee itself?  Is that a little peculiar, and even a little disappointing?  This is Pine Valley for goodness sakes...would it be too much to expect to have all four bags and caddies lined up outside the tee marker, close to their man if he needs something, each of them attentive to the matters at hand, watching the flight of the ball, and marking balls as they land?

Perhaps I am getting old, perhaps I am a curmudgeon, or perhaps my expectations are based on experiences from 25 years ago and they are not relevant or realistic today...thoughts?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 09:54:03 AM by Chris Hufnagel »

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2013, 09:55:54 AM »
Chris,

Considering there is a fifth golfer (right near the caddy not paying attention) I'm going to make a very educated guess that should ease your mind.

The caddies for the group teeing off are about 125 yards ahead forecaddying after consulting with their players about the hole and their needs.


As to having the bags right by the players side in the event he needs something; Pine Valley is pretty impressive in the way they deliver service. Always appropriate and professional, but not babysitting or hand-holding. You will always be very well taken care of but it's not a pampering resort.

Chris_Hufnagel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2013, 10:00:46 AM »
Chris,

Considering there is a fifth golfer (right near the caddy not paying attention) I'm going to make a very educated guess that should ease your mind.

The caddies for the group teeing off are about 125 yards ahead forecaddying after consulting with their players about the hole and their needs.


As to having the bags right by the players side in the event he needs something; Pine Valley is pretty impressive in the way they deliver service. Always appropriate and professional, but not babysitting or hand-holding. You will always be very well taken care of but it's not a pampering resort.

Jim, if that is the case and that does make sense, then I do feel better - I had a hard time imagining Pine Valley not having a great caddie experience...

Philip Gawith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2013, 10:14:25 AM »
Chris, Jim is correct. If you look at the second photo, you can see the two caddies (each caddie double-bags) standing, almost exactly as he describes, 125 yards up the fairway on the left. On many of the holes one caddie will be with the golfers on the tee and the other will be acting as a fore-caddie up the fairway.

Bill Crane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2013, 01:21:51 PM »
There are certain holes on special golf courses that just seem to stand out to me, and represent the essence of the course – even one with as diverse a set of holes as P V.  

Off the top of my head those would be the 13th at Pine Valley, the 5th at Merion and the 8th at Yale.  There are others, but these come to mind first.  I am surprised to realize that these three are holes that a solid draw could really be useful, although you are dead if you over cook it.

I would add the 15th at home course Springdale in this group, it is a hole similar to the 12th at Merion, with the P U Graduate College Cleveland tower as the line for the tee shot. Finally, a fade tee shot hole! The 14th at Chechessee Creek has this feel for me as well.   These are all holes on courses I have played at least five times and have a good feel for.

I guess they are all long(ish) par fours that require a sold drive and an accurate middle to long iron to hit the green.  They all hug the natural terrain well, and are fundamentally strategic but do have a alternative conservative option that makes an reasonable bogey, hard par and takes birdie out of the question.  Birdies are hard to come by on all these holes.


Wm Flynnfan

PS  William Flynn and Hugh Wilson helped complete the unfinished holes at PV after Crump died – they were holes 12 -15!
_________________________________________________________________
( s k a Wm Flynnfan }

Paul OConnor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2013, 02:25:14 PM »
How can the best course in the country have a cart path cutting across the first fairway?

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back