Kintyre Pilgrimage

[THuckaby2]

Darrren:

I'd say US visitors go there because more and more word of mouth, as well as pure advertising by travel companies, call it a great golf course, for whatever reason.  Charm, architecture, nice views, whatever - word is it's great and needs to be seen.

As more and more travel companies send people there, it's hard for me to believe what occurred at Dornoch (significant raise in visitors fees over the years) won't occur there also.  

Compare it to Cruden Bay also - has the decrease in charm (which definitely exists - the new modern clubhouse is appalling) led to decrease in visitors?  I think not.

But here's hoping I'm wrong!

TH

[Darren_Kilfara]

The Cruden Bay clubhouse is "appalling"? Sorry, I don't see that. I think the main bar area with the huge picture windows is wonderful.

The reason that charm matters to Machrihanish is that it's so far away from the rest of Scottish civilisation, golfing or otherwise. It's the kind of place where you go to get away from it all (Dornoch, in my book, doesn't quite qualify as that sort of place - which isn't a judgement against it by any means), and enjoy the simple life. I guess some people are willing to pay through the nose for the "simple life", but if it's expensive, to a lot of us it will no longer be "simple".

Hmmm...perhaps in the book I'm currently writing I should go out of my way to suggest that Machrihanish is a goat track. Do you think that would scare people away?

Cheers,
Darren

[THuckaby2]

Darren:

"Apalling" is a relative term re Cruden Bay.  Did you ever see what was there before?  It oozed charm, as remote Scottish golf clubs should.  What's there today is functionally very nice, without a doubt, but would also fit right in in San Jose, CA.  That's what I mean by the relative loss of charm.

Re Machrihanish, if your current book extols its charms, then you shall shoulder some of the blame/praise when the course gets over-run, making zillions in additional fees in the process...

TH

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Darren I hope you are right about that. How many visator rounds have been played this season? I would love to see the increase over the last 10 to 15 years. As a member you may be able to find that out. As for the clubhouse at Cruden Bay. I find both you and Tom are right. i do love the windows and the view of some of the great golf in the world. I actually liked the Phillips flat screen to watch the Scotoish Open over pints. However it is alot like america style wise which is not the same charm that a Western Gailles has. On a another note, the kitchen at Cruden Bay was not as good as my last pass which was amoung the best in golf in the old facility. a big boy like me takes this lunch stuff pretty seriously.

[THuckaby2]

Tiger is right on, as he always is.  Yes, Darren and I are both "right" re Cruden Bay.  The new facility is very nice, comfortable, functional.  It just has none of the charm that the old clubhouse had, but then again functionally the old place was cramped and somewhat run-down.

The bottom line to me is that the style of the new place is very American.... which is great for the members, I'm sure they'd think anyone preferring the old place is insane... but for a visitor, well... I want to feel like I'm away from home, not at home, if that makes any sense.

Western Gailes is a great example... compare that to Turnberry or Kingsbarns to see what I mean.

TH

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I loved the improvements to western gailes clubhouse. They did a great job without losing any charm or character.

[ForkaB]

FBD

In your initial post you mentioned something like "lack of multiple pinnable positions on the greens" as being a "good" thing.  Surely that is a "bad" thing, in terms of GCA?  No?

[THuckaby2]

Tiger:

I only saw WG once, in 1998.  Was it improved before or after that?  I will say it oozed charm like no other in 1998....

TH

[ChipOat]

Since we're talking about Machrihanish, I'll weigh in with 2 items:

1) The green fees at Machrihanish will, at a minimum, rise at the same rate as the costs of maintaining the course in excellent condition + the costs of required deferred maintenance on the physical plant.  Factor in the costs of upgrading the quality of the physical plant and there you have it.  Dornoch's green fees are way higher than years ago but the condition of both courses and the clubhouse are also vastly improved, as well.  Getting rid of rabbits and keeping them away gets more expensive every year.

2) I don't know what the "best" opening hole in golf is, but Machrihanish's reputation for same is undeserved IMO because: a) it's too difficult for an opener and b) it's totally non-strategic off the tee - the long hitter has too much advantage and the short hitter too much DISadvantage for my taste.

Having said that, it is certainly the most DRAMATIC first hole in all of golf and any architect with half a brain would have put the tee box right where it is - the hole just BEGGED to be built.

[Darren_Kilfara]

1) The green fees at Machrihanish will, at a minimum, rise at the same rate as the costs of maintaining the course in excellent condition + the costs of required deferred maintenance on the physical plant.  Factor in the costs of upgrading the quality of the physical plant and there you have it.  Dornoch's green fees are way higher than years ago but the condition of both courses and the clubhouse are also vastly improved, as well.  Getting rid of rabbits and keeping them away gets more expensive every year.

2) I don't know what the "best" opening hole in golf is, but Machrihanish's reputation for same is undeserved IMO because: a) it's too difficult for an opener and b) it's totally non-strategic off the tee - the long hitter has too much advantage and the short hitter too much DISadvantage for my taste.

Having said that, it is certainly the most DRAMATIC first hole in all of golf and any architect with half a brain would have put the tee box right where it is - the hole just BEGGED to be built.

1) If anything, the course condition at Machrihanish has gotten WORSE since I started going there on a regular basis in 1996. The greens in particular this year are as bad as I've ever seen them, and most longtime members do find that they've been getting progressively worse ("with the changing climate", so they say).

2) The first tee shot at Machrihanish is more strategic than you're giving it credit for - I find that as I've become a longer driver of the ball, the tee shot has become more difficult, not less (because once you start bringing the fairway bunkers and the longer rough beyond them into play, you really do have to marry line and distance together). The first hole in general has really grown on me during my year here...I used to think it was overrated too, but now I'm far from sure about that.

Cheers,
Darren

[Bill_McBride]

Darren, for future reference, what would be the best routing/logistics to fly into Scotland from Atlanta and thence to Machrihanish? Thanks........this could come in handy in May 2004 if the GCA Ryder Cup thing happens there!

[ChipOat]

Darren:

Need to play #1 (and 2-18!!) more often to get a better feel for the landing area that the longer hitter experiences.

My 3 times around were all in the same wind and it was clear that the shorter hitter had to play way out to the right off the tee.  In effect, the hole becomes unreachable for the shorter hitter under those conditions.

[JohnV]

Tom, in order to get the wife to let you go to Dornoch, I think some time at Sligo Castle should get you in her good graces.  Or check this place out:  Scottish Spa  it is up in Wick, but I'm sure you could make the drive down to Dornoch each day.  Check under Activities for the spa treatments available.

[Darren_Kilfara]

Darren, for future reference, what would be the best routing/logistics to fly into Scotland from Atlanta and thence to Machrihanish? Thanks........this could come in handy in May 2004 if the GCA Ryder Cup thing happens there!

Bill, it's pretty much down to the best deal you get. The only direct Transatlantic flight to Scotland (Glasgow) from the US departs from Newark, but you can make your first hop from Atlanta straight to Europe (London, Brussels, Paris, etc.) and then fly from that gateway straight to Glasgow instead. Machrihanish is a 3.5-to-4-hour drive from Glasgow - or it's a 25-minute flight to Machrihanish/Campbeltown Airport from Glasgow Airport. Just note that you'll want to fly into Glasgow if you can help it and not Prestwick, which has become the preferred airport of choice for the cheap carriers (like EasyJet, the UK's equivalent of ValuJet).

Cheers,
Darren

[Darren_Kilfara]

My 3 times around were all in the same wind and it was clear that the shorter hitter had to play way out to the right off the tee.  In effect, the hole becomes unreachable for the shorter hitter under those conditions.

There are many par 4s at Machrihanish which are driver/flip-wedge for the scratch player under normal conditions, and unreachable for the shorter hitter in certain winds. (I think you'll find that to be true of many courses, actually.) The most common wind at Machrihanish is behind you and/or out of the right, relative to the line of play off the first tee - both of which have a slingshot effect for your opening shot of the day. So it sounds like you played the course in atypical conditions (although having said that, atypical conditions are somewhat typical, if you follow me).

Cheers,
Darren

[Marty Bonnar]

FBD

In your initial post you mentioned something like "lack of multiple pinnable positions on the greens" as being a "good" thing.  Surely that is a "bad" thing, in terms of GCA?  No?

Rich
Apologies for not replying sooner. Had a hot date with some Brown Trout yesterday!! (Result: Fish 1, FBD Nil)
Ordinarily, I'd agree 100% with you, but in this instance what I was enthusing about was that whilst the contouring of the greens limited the number of potential pin positions, it mattered not a jot. In fact, it enhanced the playing experience.
The positions which actually were available (let's say, rather generously, maybe 10-15% of the total green area in some cases) tend to be concentrated in troughs or swales running the length/width of the green. The net result is that wherever you've landed the approach, you might still easily be in three-putt territory, due to the combined effects of multiple borrows and speed changes. On one occasion I had to putt about two yards back off the green to get anywhere near the hole!!!
What was demanded of the player was not only skillful putting, but great IMAGINATION also! And that, to me, is a major hallmark of what divides a good golf course from a great one...

FBD.