[Jay Flemma]

I'm being sent to cover the Grand Slam, so I might as well play while I'm there.  Obviously Mid-Ocean is Mid-Ocean...but how are Tuckers Point and Port Royal?  Tuckers used to be a Charles Banks, but Rulewich did work there...to what extent is Banks's work still there?  How is Port Royal?  what are your personal highlights of Mid-Ocean?  what's its greatest architectural feature?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Jay,

Haven' been there in over 20 years, but enjoyed all the courses very much, perhaps Port Royal the least.

I recall thinking there was no reason to go to Hawaii after seeing Bermuda.

[Greg Tallman]

Not sure how one could enjoy Port Royal the least. Nothing off the charts but certainly a fun course. Take #10 out of the mix and the back nine is very good in my opinion. The front has a mix of boring, funky and good stuff but from 7 on the course is pretty darn good.

Tuckers (formerly Castle Harbour), in my opinion, is the classic "good club, not so good golf" but certainly worth a play if you are there and have time.

Heck to be honest the executive course at St. Georges was quite fun. I'd play it before some fo the other "regulation" 18 holers that are all around 5600-5800 or at least were a decade ago.

[Brad Tufts]

Just went over Memorial Day weekend...

M-O is your MO.

Port Royal has been recently redone prior to the Grand Slam, and it is no picnic.  GREAT views, fair but tough.  A few holes suffer as the shot requirements squelch the strategy.  Probably a 7.

Tucker's Point shifts from great to what? several times through your round.  I haven't played there since 2002 when they had just finished the transition from Emmet's cramped Castle Harbour to Rulewich's Tucker's Point.  Somehow they found a few hundred more yards, which seems impossible.  Some holes remained the same, while others are completely new.  I came away wanting another crack, but if you are going to spend $250 (and maybe you aren't), play Mid-Ocean again!

Belmont Hills is interesting, but just 6000 yards total from the bushes behind each tee.  I wouldn't say "good" architecturally, but it has many fun moments.  Sharpen your wedges!

Riddell's Bay is similar to the above...maybe not as dynamic.  Has some ocean (harbor side) interaction that BH lacks.  About 5700 from the tips...Emmet roots, but not particularly recognizable.

St. George's is currently closed for redevelopment that may never occur!

Southhampton Princess is an 18 hole par three courses now called Turtle Hill...not sure if the hotel is affiliated anymore...but the course is supposed to be beautiful and challenging.

There is a government-run 9-holer called Ocean View that I haven't played that is regulation length, but don't know much about it.

[Tom_Doak]

Port Royal has been recently redone prior to the Grand Slam, and it is no picnic.  GREAT views, fair but tough.  A few holes suffer as the shot requirements squelch the strategy.  Probably a 7.

St. George's is currently closed for redevelopment that may never occur!

Port Royal was only a 5 "before" the changes, which I have not seen.  I'd be shocked if they turned it into a 7 on the Doak scale.  It's scenic, but there were way too many back-and-forth holes as I remember it, and they were too close together at that.

I was going to report that I thought St. George's was closed but Brad has confirmed it.  I talked to someone this spring wanting to know what they could do to turn it into something grander, but I don't think they have the space to do so.  I guess I should look at it more closely, Bermuda was a pretty nice place to work.

[Brad Tufts]

Hi Tom,

I would definitely say PR is better now after the changes.  They took out a ton of trees, bringing the importance of wind back into play.  The bunkers are all "muscled up" now...deep with plunging grass edges, and there are more shaved edges around the greens.  I didn't remember how many elevated greens they had after playing the old version, probably because you missed a green and the ball didn't run away very far.  My biggest criticism is that the two (previously) neatest holes, #15/16, are a bit absurd now to create difficulty for the Grand Slam.  #15 changed from 400 to 450, and the fairway bunkering is such that only a sliver of fairway exists to avoid them.  #16 was a great all-or-nothing par three from 175y, but at 230+ with zero bailout, it's purely survival now.  And both holes play into the prevailing wind!  I suppose the pros can do anything with a golf ball, but they have lots of public back tee play with the total yardage being sub-7000y, so the pros aren't the only ones playing from back there.

Not to back off my original number (when that's exactly what I want to do)...but I struggle when a course is 6.5...I don't want to give it a 7 necessarily, but it's better than a 6.  Maybe I just want Bermuda to be more than a one-course island when it's not!

Concerning St. George's, I think the rumor was that Faldo was going to design something in the 6000-6200y range on that property, and the adjacent hotel was to be refurbished.  Not completely sure though, as there have been rumors of a golf course on the Royal Naval Dockyard (opposite end of Bermuda from St. G's) for years...but that seems to have fallen by the wayside with the move of cruise ship docking to the Dockyard away from St. George's and Hamilton.

I think that St. George's property could be a GREAT site for a shortish course that is VERY Bermuda...ocean frontage on multiple compass points, adjacent to Fort St. Catherine and the adjoining beach/bar, some neat elevation change, views of St. George's town, etc.

[Bill_McBride]

Hi Tom,

I would definitely say PR is better now after the changes.  They took out a ton of trees, bringing the importance of wind back into play.  The bunkers are all "muscled up" now...deep with plunging grass edges, and there are more shaved edges around the greens.  I didn't remember how many elevated greens they had after playing the old version, probably because you missed a green and the ball didn't run away very far.  My biggest criticism is that the two (previously) neatest holes, #15/16, are a bit absurd now to create difficulty for the Grand Slam.  #15 changed from 400 to 450, and the fairway bunkering is such that only a sliver of fairway exists to avoid them.  #16 was a great all-or-nothing par three from 175y, but at 230+ with zero bailout, it's purely survival now.  And both holes play into the prevailing wind!  I suppose the pros can do anything with a golf ball, but they have lots of public back tee play with the total yardage being sub-7000y, so the pros aren't the only ones playing from back there.

Not to back off my original number (when that's exactly what I want to do)...but I struggle when a course is 6.5...I don't want to give it a 7 necessarily, but it's better than a 6.  Maybe I just want Bermuda to be more than a one-course island when it's not!

Concerning St. George's, I think the rumor was that Faldo was going to design something in the 6000-6200y range on that property, and the adjacent hotel was to be refurbished.  Not completely sure though, as there have been rumors of a golf course on the Royal Naval Dockyard (opposite end of Bermuda from St. G's) for years...but that seems to have fallen by the wayside with the move of cruise ship docking to the Dockyard away from St. George's and Hamilton.

I think that St. George's property could be a GREAT site for a shortish course that is VERY Bermuda...ocean frontage on multiple compass points, adjacent to Fort St. Catherine and the adjoining beach/bar, some neat elevation change, views of St. George's town, etc.

We (2 couples) stayed in a cottage on the little St George's course twenty years ago.  It was a lot of fun to play, especially the three hole, one club plus six pack with the ladies, cocktail loop.   There were a couple of cool holes but not much else.   The little town of St George's was great fun, and not as crowded as Hamilton.    Mid-Ocean is a really good course.  

[Greg Tallman]

Port Royal has been recently redone prior to the Grand Slam, and it is no picnic.  GREAT views, fair but tough.  A few holes suffer as the shot requirements squelch the strategy.  Probably a 7.

St. George's is currently closed for redevelopment that may never occur!

Port Royal was only a 5 "before" the changes, which I have not seen.  I'd be shocked if they turned it into a 7 on the Doak scale.  It's scenic, but there were way too many back-and-forth holes as I remember it, and they were too close together at that.

I was going to report that I thought St. George's was closed but Brad has confirmed it.  I talked to someone this spring wanting to know what they could do to turn it into something grander, but I don't think they have the space to do so.  I guess I should look at it more closely, Bermuda was a pretty nice place to work.

Tom, You should pitch a fabulous 9 or 12 hole course with great practice facility and a killer putting course on the St George's site.  

Regarding Port Royal where are the back and forth holes apart from 4 and 5? And where does/did one hole infringe on another? As I said beginning at 7 the course is pretty darn good with the exception of 10 which could have been made decent with tree removal which it sounds as though may have happened. Not hailing it as antyhing great but I can say I enjoyed playing it nearly as much as Mid Ocean.  

 

[Jay Flemma]

What about Tuckers?  How much Banks is left?

[jeffwarne]

I'm being sent to cover the Grand Slam, so I might as well play while I'm there.  Obviously Mid-Ocean is Mid-Ocean...but how are Tuckers Point and Port Royal?  Tuckers used to be a Charles Banks, but Rulewich did work there...to what extent is Banks's work still there?  How is Port Royal?  what are your personal highlights of Mid-Ocean?  what's its greatest architectural feature?

preferred Tucker's Point to Port Royal by quite a bit.
Wasn't enamored with Tucker's the first time I played it but it has grown on me
No chance Port Royal's a 7-......4-5 at best

[Brad Tufts]

Jay,

To me, Tucker's was rebuilt in the spirit of Banks with sharp edges and large, deep bunkers, but as for identifiable Banks features?  I doubt more than the routing of a bunch of holes is the same as the Banks version.

Not completely sure though.

[Jay Flemma]

But Banks used the typical holes we find at Raynor and Macd courses, so we must find them there too...what holes are there at Tuckers?  The typical "Redan, Biarritz, Eden, Short" we find elsewhere?  Others perhaps?

[Brad Tufts]

There is very little of that remaining, if any.

I played M-O followed by TP on consecutive days my first trip to Bermuda, and did not think "oh wow, this is similar to #X hole at M-O" at any given point.

It is 100% a Rulewich course now, with holes occupying the same space as many previous holes.

I will still admit my TP memory is hazy, so I can/will be corrected if I'm off-base above...but I would have remembered if it was a Banks/Raynor tribute course or something...it just isn't.

[SL_Solow]

Will be there this weekend.  Not playing all the courses but will report.

[Robin_Hiseman]

Jay

I played Mid Ocean, Tucker's Point and Port Royal back in 2005.  Clearly, Mid Ocean is a class apart, both as a course and as a club.  The template holes are perfect museum pieces.  

Tucker's Point was a good club and clearly aimed at the resort crowd.  I actually met Roger Rulewich in the bar after the round.  I'm supposing it was lucky coincidence, rather than the fact that he's a permanent fixture, but I would say that the course there today is basically all him.  The attached photo is typical of the style of the course.  

Port Royal is definitely worth a game for the oceanside holes.  Just a lovely spot to be with a club in your hand and the colour of the sea has to be seen to be believed.  I played it before the renovation and it was choked with trees.  I'm sure it's better now it's been cleaned up.  Certainly looked OK on the previous Grand Slams i've watched.  The other attached photo of the 16th tee is reason enough to drop by.

Neither course is going to rock your world, but these three are clearly a step above the rest of the courses on the island.

Tucker's Point...not sure which hole


Port Royal 16.  

[Jay Flemma]

Sl, I'm looking forward to your reply.

Robin, I look at that pic of Tucker's and all I can think is, Man, what a waste of a chance to used reverse camber...You're right, the color of that water is remarkable and it does look like a lovely place to hit a golf ball.

Still...Dye Fore is the leader in the clubhouse with Teeth of the Dog a stroke behind:)  We'll see what the scoreboard reads in a few weeks:)

[Jay Flemma]

Paging S.L! Paging S.L! The white courtesy phone in the Polo Lounge is ringing for you:)

[SL_Solow]

Sorry for the delay but sometimes work interferes.  In any event, here is the report.

I spent a long weekend in Bermuda on a business retreat which included recreation.  For me, that was golf.  I managed to play 3 rounds, 2 of which were related to the retreat, the other I arranged on my own spending part of an extra day.  One round is not worth spending significant time on reporting; the group played the par 3 course at the Fairmont Southhampton.  It is a cute little par 3 which can be played quickly with greens like velcro.  A nice diversion suitable for a group containing many beginners.  Nice ocean views.

The other sponsored round was at Port Royal, the site of the PGA grand slam exhibition.  It is a pleasant place to play.  Lots of elevation changes, well maintained in a beautiful setting.  I played quite well and enjoyed the day.  That said, there was nothing of significant interest architecturally.  the 16th, a signature par 3, is a nice hole but we have seen better use of par 3's along and over the ocean.  I thought 8 with the ocean behind the hole and a better green complex was at least its equal.  A fair number of risk reward drives on dog leg par 4's but the risk reward ratio was never significant enough to quicken one's pulse.  One prone to sexist analogies might liken the course to a "dumb blonde", nice to look at but lacking substance.  Happy to play it again but nothing truly memorable.


Mid Ocean is of a different caliber.  Also on a hilly site with tremendous views overlooking the ocean, Harrington Sound and Tuckers Town Cove, it is another example of Macdonald and Raynor's ability to fit templates  on to differnt properties and make them work.  Trent Jones work did not do much to disturb the basics of the course.  As a result there are many of the usual suspects; a long, eden, cape (quite good) short (very well done), leven, punch bowl (quite interesting) redan (better than Shoreacres, not as good as the National).  The Biarritz has seen the front portion and the swale turned into fairway.  We discussed the possibility of convetring it back with some members; I can't say that this will occur.

Some of the non template holes were quite good as well.  I liked the way 11 layed out on the ground.  While I generally dislike holes that funnel on both sides of the fairway, this one was quite natural and worked quite well. I was not particularly fond of 18, I have a prejudice against finishing holes that have a steep climb to reach a perched clubhouse, Riviera notwithstanding.  Finally I note there were a number of interesting doglegs that with repeat plays were likely to create choices off the tee.  All in all a very good course, several cuts above Port Royal.

A last note.  It was my first visit to Bermuda.  We had perfect weather and it was a lovely place to visit.

[Jay Flemma]

Great stuff SL.  I leave early Monday...and of course I have a client gig scheduled for Manhattan at 10 pm Sunday night.  Figures!  Good thing Monday's an easy day:)

Tuckers Tues, Mid-O Wed, Pt. Royal Thurs.  Catch you on the other side.

[SL_Solow]

I missed Tuckers.  Interested in your reaction.

[Jay Flemma]

I can tell you this...after landing and driving from east to west to my room at the Southampton Fairmont, I am deeply impressed:  with both the hotel and the quality of life of the island.

[Jay Flemma]

So everyone here was pretty much spot on:  Mid-Ocean was epic, Tucker's was cool, but doesn't seem to have a lot of Banks left (but was fun nonetheless) and Port Royal wasn't a GCA.com kind of place.

I'll post more later, but the front of Mid-O was just breathtaking...from the great sweeping curve of one, to the seaside teebox of four and the climb up the hill to the green above the spectacles bunkers to the great cape, the sensational plunge to the sixth green, the amazing short at 7, the valley at 8, it was a GCAers dream come true.  The back wasn't as awesome from beginning to end, but it was still excellent.  The green at 10, the Biarritz at 13, and the finish from 15-18.  I can;t wait to see it again.  There's where I might want to be an international member.  It's just a short flight from NYC!

I really enjoyed Tuckers, though I scratched my head a couple times looking at the hole desrcitions on the card and not seeing the features listed there on the ground.  But it was still great fun.  A solid start continues deep into the front nine, then the back explores different terrain, but there were a few holes of Banks left like a long difficult Eden and then a great following par-5.

Port Royal was typical Jones severely uphill, elevated greens, 90-degree doglegs, and five o'clock-seven o'clock greenside bunkering, lather, rinse repeat.

That's the same reason why my last girlfriend took five hours in the shower...lather, rinse, repeat, but I digress...

There were some good moments like 7 and 8 and fifteen and sixteen.  But 9 and 18 are abominations.  Hey!  Let's just go straight up this hill for four hundred and forty yards!

[Greg Tallman]

So everyone here was pretty much spot on:  Mid-Ocean was epic, Tucker's was cool, but doesn't seem to have a lot of Banks left (but was fun nonetheless) and Port Royal wasn't a GCA.com kind of place.

I'll post more later, but the front of Mid-O was just breathtaking...from the great sweeping curve of one, to the seaside teebox of four and the climb up the hill to the green above the spectacles bunkers to the great cape, the sensational plunge to the sixth green, the amazing short at 7, the valley at 8, it was a GCAers dream come true.  The back wasn't as awesome from beginning to end, but it was still excellent.  The green at 10, the Biarritz at 13, and the finish from 15-18.  I can;t wait to see it again.  There's where I might want to be an international member.  It's just a short flight from NYC!

I really enjoyed Tuckers, though I scratched my head a couple times looking at the hole desrcitions on the card and not seeing the features listed there on the ground.  But it was still great fun.  A solid start continues deep into the front nine, then the back explores different terrain, but there were a few holes of Banks left like a long difficult Eden and then a great following par-5.

Port Royal was typical Jones severely uphill, elevated greens, 90-degree doglegs, and five o'clock-seven o'clock greenside bunkering, lather, rinse repeat.

That's the same reason why my last girlfriend took five hours in the shower...lather, rinse, repeat, but I digress...

There were some good moments like 7 and 8 and fifteen and sixteen.  But 9 and 18 are abominations.  Hey!  Let's just go straight up this hill for four hundred and forty yards!

Regarding Port Royal, I thought beginning at 7 the golf course was pretty good with some weirdness thrown in here and there. 9 is severely uphill but I sure don't recall it being 440 or close to it. 11 was a nice drive to the crest of the saddle with a picturesque downhill approach. Appears that 12 and 13 have been changed as 12 used to be a semi blind uphill 3 par and 13 a funky, quasi drivable par 4 but watching the Slam 13 had become a downhilll par three to what looked like the same green complex of the old former par 4. I always liked 14, dogleg left up the hill and around the bend, poorly placed drives left blind on approach. Don't see 18 as being that sever at all and as I recall the tee shot is pretty level with manageable uphill approach. Think you are getting caught up in who designed the places originally if you liked Tuckers better than Port Royal, even with its weak start.  

[Brad Tufts]

I agree with Greg.

PR over TP.

I liked #1 as an interesting "only in Bermuda" downhill semi-blind tee shot.  2-6 are not memorable.  7 is a fun short par four, and 8 is a cool risk-reward par 5.  #9 is too severe...just a difficult hole with no aesthetic value (if you don't count 270-degrees of Ocean behind you)...you can't see the green until you are 10' from it.

#10 is a quirky short par four that makes you think, and 11 is a decent hole with a crazy greensite.  14-16 are the best stretch on the course, even if 15 is almost a too-tough fairway to hit.  17 and 18 are a bit blah, but 18 is fair and difficult.

Regardless, your PR experience all depends on the wind in my mind, as it can be a real bear.

[Greg Tallman]

I agree with Greg.

PR over TP.

I liked #1 as an interesting "only in Bermuda" downhill semi-blind tee shot.  2-6 are not memorable.  7 is a fun short par four, and 8 is a cool risk-reward par 5.  #9 is too severe...just a difficult hole with no aesthetic value (if you don't count 270-degrees of Ocean behind you)...you can't see the green until you are 10' from it.

#10 is a quirky short par four that makes you think, and 11 is a decent hole with a crazy greensite.  14-16 are the best stretch on the course, even if 15 is almost a too-tough fairway to hit.  17 and 18 are a bit blah, but 18 is fair and difficult.

Regardless, your PR experience all depends on the wind in my mind, as it can be a real bear.

I thought 7 was the down then up par 5 and 8 the downhill, ocean backdrop par 3? Swear 8 is where I watched multiple waterspouts dance for several minutes about a mile off shore.

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