Ohio golf

[Matt_Ward]

Mr. MacWood:

Beg to differ about the leap to fame for Hurdzan and Fry. The Eaglesticks layout was up and running BEFORE the combo of Devil's Pulpit and Paintbrush were both open.

Regarding the course -- Eaglesticks is quite good given the cramp nature of the site and I believe as a public offering is certainly worth a look for anyone treking on I-70 between Columbus and say Wheeling or Pittsburgh.

The holes have an array of bunkers that Hurdzan and Fry (most especially) created. They are deep in many spots and the greens have plenty of contour to keep you honest. I especially liked the short par-4 7th which goes downhill and plays roughly 330 yards. There is water to the right and the green is serpentine in its character. Long hitters can reach the green but not without peril. The long par-4 8th and 9th holes are also a solid tandem to close the nine.

The thing to keep in mind about Eaglesticks is that the course is so short (6,600 yards tops) but it still has plenty to offer. How about the center positioned fairway bunker at the 18th? The downhill par-5 11th is also quite good. When you say it's not walkable I have to say it can be done --does the club allow people to do it is quite another story.

From the public courses I 've played in the Buckeye State I have always enjoyed the rounds (three total) I've played at Eaglesticks on my treks on I-70 to Columbus, Indy and points west.

[Paul Richards]

jg:

As I mentioned above, I enjoyed it for the "links-feel" that the CC of Dublin was trying to replicate, although they dug a lot of lakes and used the dirt for movement on what was essentially a dead-flat piece of land.  It almost felt like I was at a Florida-course from that perspective.

However, overall, the experience was a positive one and I was wondering who else has visited and what they thought of it as well?

[Todd_Joseph]

In defense of the Golf Club of Dublin,  a significant amount of the water is behind each green, which I would expect, brings it into play for the better golfers.  There are really no required carries into greens and a few easy carries off of tees.   The super is really are trying to keep the fairways brown and hard, but with the heavy rains in Columbus all summer, it hasn't been completely successful.  

I live across the street from the course and have followed the developement since the original groundbreaking.   It certainly is an improvement on the cornfields that used to be there.  

[T_MacWood]

At Eaglesticks, due to the severity and steepness of the land the architects were forced to move a lot of earth. Creating relatively level shelves to place their golf holes. These man-made shelves are banked on the sides--containment with a sort of Gleneagles flair. It is an interesting visual, but clearly artificial.

The good news if you are a little off line the containment will keep you nicely in play, the bad news if you more than a little off line, you will slip over the containment and off the face of the earth (or quite possibly tumble down to a containment corridor far below your current containment shelve...not only your ball, but quite possibly you and/or your playing partner).

Based on the steepness of the land, it was most likely the only alternative. And unfortunately the course is unwalkable. Ohio's version of Japanese golf? I do not believe you will find Eaglesticks in Hurdzan and Fry's new book of their best 30+ designs (the best of its kind I have run across).

Devil's Pulpit was opened the same year as Eaglesticks and won the firm's first major award Best New Course in Canada. The following year Devil's Paintbrush won the same award and the rest is history...as they say.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I say we as a Nation attack and destory Ohio, and then give it to Canada.

[T_MacWood]

The club allows walking...at least they used to....I did it. The course was built on a former horse farm....I'm proably the only idiot--without four legs--who has walked it.

[Matt_Ward]

Tom MacWood:

Your point on the containment mounding at Eaglesticks is true but you still don't discuss specific holes at the course which I believe, in a number of cases, to be quite good -- again, despite the cramped land.

I don't know what Hurdzan and Fry think of Eaglesticks but given the rolling nature of the site I believe the net result was quite good.

I don't doubt that walking can be a strain for those not in shape at Eaglesticks but it's no worse than what you have to do at Bethpage Black or even The Bridge.

[Mike Nuzzo]

I say we as a Nation attack and destory Ohio, and then give it to Canada.

WHOOAAAH tommy.

I'm not usually on the bias patrol, but have you been there lately?

I recently have, and must come to it's defense.

[jg7236]

Why don't we destroy California and give it to Mexico!

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

Hey also anyone know anything about the new Boulder Creek (?I think it is called) public course in Streetsboro (Cleveland area)?

[Tim_Weiman]

Turboe,

I'm quite familiar with Boulder Creek having walked the property several times during construction (with developer Joe Salemi) and now played it a couple times.

My feelings are mixed. Part of me has a great deal of admiration for Joe for taking on his dream of building a very good, relatively affordable public course ($50 ish). The story of Boulder Creek is very interesting; no lawyers, no environmental consultants, no construction company and no architect. In fact, he really only hired about two people with experience in the golf industry. This includes the Super who had experience a few Nicklaus courses and a relatively junior shaper who worked for one of the big construction firms.

Part of this was Joe's burning desire to do it on his own. But, also he just didn't see paying the likes of a Fazio or Nicklaus a million dollars to create relatively affordable golf.

Now the course itself. The property is very good with lots of elevation changes. If you go, don't be deceived by first impressions. The layout makes Boulder Creek look more like a driving range than a golf course when you first arrive. But, then a long par five (almost 600 yards) takes you into the heart of the property and provides a sense of isolation (no homes or real estate development to spoil things).

As for the holes themselves, there are several I like including #2, #3, #8, #11 and the very challenging #13.

The downside to Boulder Creek is what Tom Doak calls "details". The bunker work, for instance, just isn't very appealing and there is just too much evidence of "shaping 101" rather than the real classy stuff our favorite architecture teams might have produced.

Number 17 is a downhill par 3 playing 140-175 yards to an island green than sums up what you will find at Boulder Creek. It appears most people love it, but I think it is one of the most unappealing holes I've ever seen mostly due to the poor quality of the bunker work.

One other point to note. Boulder Creek is a very difficult course to walk. Apparently somewhere between 95% and 99% of the people playing the course take a cart. I've played it both ways and can see why so few people walk. That's points off in my book.

At the end of the day, I wish Joe Salemi had hired a professional architect. It's a good site that might have produced something far better, but so far as I can tell the "masses" seem to love the place.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Why don't we destroy California and give it to Mexico!

John, You don't have to. We're doing a pretty good job of that ourselves!

Senor Tomas'

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Why if it isn't my ol' buddy Tim Weiman!

[T_MacWood]

Matt
I'm not impressed with beautifully constructed waterscape at #7...I understand these type features appeal to you. (the flowers are also lovely). The hole is one six or seven layup with an iron par-4s...except for those very bold (or stupid). #8 is OK. Again I'm not a fan of the containment effect. The parallel #9 and #18 did nothing for me. The viscious rivetted bunker certainly effects play and is an interesting conversation piece...but it is totally out of character with the rest of the course and the rest of the course's bunkering. I'm also not crazy about the ruins of an old farm house's foundation as a design feature.

#11 is a very good hole...the best IMO...but again the containment. An awkward routing due to the severity of the ground, it also features three or four very long green to tee rides (in your case). As I said I must be the only idiot that has walked the course. Not a bad course, but not my cup of tea.

[Matt_Ward]

Tom MacWood:

There's more to Eaglesticks than the flowers at #7!

Let's be also a bit more fair considering the fact that the dearth of quality public golf courses in the State of Ohio until say the last 10-15 years.

Also -- if one plays simply the private clubs in and around Columbus I can imagine one turning one's nose up at such type layouts even if they are not "classically designed."

[T_MacWood]

Matt
Not enough waterscapes and flowers at Sharon Woods, Granville or Sleepy Hollow?

[Matt_Ward]

Tom:

Give some credit where it's due -- what was achieved on the property for Eaglesticks turned out quite well. Yes, there are artificial qualities with the containment mounding but there are also a number of quality holes -- I count the 7th among them.

[ed_getka]

I'm trying to reach Dan Belden, does anyone have a phone # for him?

[Tim_Weiman]

Matt Ward:

I just noticed you suggested there was a "dearth of quality public golf courses in the State of Ohio until say the last 10-15 years".

Coming from someone in the New York metropolitan area that comment is both surprising and inaccurate. Most of the good muni and Mom and Pop courses that you could play for less than $20 were built years ago. They are what made golf in Ohio so nice - not the private courses or "upscale" public courses that have come along in recent years.

Just this week I played one of those Mom and Pops built back in the 1950s that you can still play for $20 and get free lemonade at the water coolers. People in the Met area would die for something like it, I can assure you.

We focus way too much on the big names you hear about in national publications. Ohio has a treasure of places you'll never hear about but locals enjoy everyday.

I grew up in New York and lived in LA. Neither area can touch Ohio for public golf.

[les_claytor]

well said Tim, I concur..... look forward to hopefully teeing it up in the BUCKEYE state soon!