[DMoriarty]

Assume you are setting up the course for a scratch amateur event and know that most of the top amateurs in the area, including big hitting top major college players, will be playing.  The most difficult par 4 on the course is the following long cape hole:



From the back tees (top right) the hole plays 480 yds, and the carry to the fairway is about 240-290, depending on the angle the driver takes.  Playing well right (240) will leave over 250 yds to the green.

From the next box the hole plays 447 and the carry is about 220 to 260 depending on the angle.   From this box, big hitters can play left of the trees (over the over the left corner of the trap) and leave themselves a very short iron in.  

The prevailing wind is into the drivers' face.  

Some of the potential contenders have trouble carrying the ball 240-250.  

Where do you put the tees:

     a.  All the way back (480).  This is the toughest hole and it should play that way.  We need to test the drivers of these players.  If some players cant make the carry, they dont deserve to win.  

     b.  At the next tee up.  It is ridiculous to eliminate some of the contenders from contention by the course setup.  We've got to set it up to give them a change.  

     c.  At the tee across the wash (365 yds). This course really needs another drivable par 4.

[Rick Shefchik]

B.

The forced carry kind of dictates this answer. It looks like a great hole -- too bad it isn't situated somewhere else in which the cape aspect would be the only consideration. Now, for too many players, the question isn't "how much do I cut off," but "can I reach the fairway." That's not strategy; that's powerlifting.

[Matt_Ward]

Dave M:

Why not vary the placements if it's a multiple round event?

One other thought ...

Are any of the tee locations elevated -- you know, looking down into the fairway. If the rear one is above the fairway then I'd have to say putting the tee boxes back there might be necessary dependign upon the caliber of the field. The hole you pictures looks very familiar -- it's not the 15th at Rustic Canyon is it?

[tonyt]

Can you steal 15-20 yards by using the tips tee, but placing the markers forward. If the minimum carry can be reduced to 220-225, consider it. If it can't get down to 225 and just below, then use the 447.

If the wind gets up hard on one or more days, a 235-240 carry would become a fiasco.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

TonyT has got it right.  Move the markers up a bit, everyone can probably carry pretty easily, therefore everyone has the option to bite off what they dare.  This way there are 3 rewards, 1. straight 2. long 3. straight and long.

[Andy_Lipschultz]

David:

I realize your are poisting a hypothetical; however, in reality doesn't the prevailing wind on this hole come from the right (North)? In addition, the hole runs downhill from right to left.Faders are always screwed on this hole. Matt's thought of varying the tee placements seems the only fair way.

[DMoriarty]

Matt,
Good idea rotating the tees for different rounds.  But I am not sure that solves the problem.  If golfer A cannot reach the fairway, he could be on the tee all day, thus taking  himself out of the tournament, no matter how many rounds the tournament lasted.  (Unless of course a generous drop area was used, but this seems an ridiculous solution for a scratch tournament.)

This is 14 at Rustic.  The tee shot plays pretty level, maybe just a tad downhill. The landing area slopes from driver's right to left, a little.

Tony T,
That back box is pretty small, I am not sure you could get 20 yds out of it.  

Lynn,
Do you really think the tee can be moved up enough on the back box to get the carry down to 225?

Andy,  I think the prevailing wind comes directly into the golfer's face on those tees.  Santa Ana winds, which tend to come in the winter, come from the right (North.)  When the Santa Ana's are blowing, the carry becomes much easier.   Lynn, please correct me if I am mistaken.  

Rick, I think your post highlights the problem.  The hole is definitely a "can I reach the fairway" hole for many from the back tees.  But for the big hitter it is a great cape hole from back there.  For the shorter hitter, it is a great cape hole from 40 yards up, but for the big hitter it has been reduced to a Driver (or 3Wood), Nine Iron.  

[Doug Wright]

With all due respect this is not a true Cape Hole. See the following from George Bahto's feature interview #1:

"3. The 'Cape' hole, according to Macdonald, was first labeled that (not first designed) when he built the 14th at NGLA. Most people think it is the angle of the tee-ball play that makes it a 'Cape hole' - not true. The word 'cape' refers to a body of land jutting into a body of water, forming a small peninsula. Macdonald 14th 'Cape' green originally jutted into the bay, but was subsequently moved in the late 1920s for two reasons. One was that downwind, big hitters were attempting to drive the green. The second was the necessity of constructing a new access road along the edge of the shoreline. Macdonald moved the green to the left further onto shore and surrounded it with sand. Then, Raynor (a civil engineer also) designed a new access road leading to the front gate. Cape holes come in a variety of designs. The 14th at Fishers Island, for example, requires the tee-ball to flirt close to the edge of a hazard rather than successfully attempt a carry. Even greens that jut out into midair on the edge of a precipice can be considered 'Cape-style greens' - the second green (not the second hole) at Yale was called just that in an early verbal description."

All The Best,

[JohnV]

I would set the tees on the 447 marker for a stroke play event.  The shorter hitters would have the opportunity to play the hole and not just have to pick up.  The longer hitters would have to decide where to carry as opposed to only really having one line.  They could carry less with a 3-wood or take driver and be aggressive.  Of course, by taking that line, if they miss it left they are probably dead.

The main reason I would probably use the tee is that the 480 tee would destroy the pace of play.

Of course, if this was the US Open, I'd have to build a new tee at 500 yards and narrow that big wide fairway.

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