[Gib_Papazian]

Thinking about how to instruct kids in an effective, but mentoring way about our game.

Harvey Penick and John Wooden; one golf, one basketball.

Yet their faces morph together in my mind's eye - strange as I never met either of them and Wooden was iconic at UCLA.

Their teaching style and way of being strike me as nearly identical.

What can we learn from their remarkable success?

[Ronald Montesano]

On here, you can ask Lynn S. about one of them.

Read the Wooden book about his pyramid of values.

For a laugh, search out the graphic for the Ron Swanson pyramid of values from tv's "Parks And Recreation."

[Scott Sander]

What can we learn from their remarkable success?

I grew up steeped in the Wooden mystique; his hometown is a half hour from the spot where I'm typing this, and his college alma mater is not far up another road in the other direction.  He has acolytes all over Central Indiana.  A couple of the best coaches from my youth started their daily instruction not with drills or sprints but of study of the Pyramid of Success.

I mention all of this so that this answer will not, I hope, be viewed as flippant or disrespectful or rash.

Here's the thing:  I don't know how much if at all Coach Wooden's ways work well today.  
Kids are different now (the again, how many generations have said the exact same thing?).  
With their instant access to information, their immersion in an increasingly short-fused popular culture, and their far-too-early exposure to the worst the world has to offer, I just don't know that many would take to coaching-by-aphorism as well as prior generations did.

By the time they are in High School, most of the young people I encounter -expect- to be treated by adults as something akin to a peer.  They view themselves as wholly-formed people.  They seem to be stingier with respect.  And they tend to have a very sensitive radar for condescension, and the Wooden way (at least as applied by his apostles around here - I had no experience with Coach Wooden himself) could tend to skirt close to that line anyway.

That all said, I always loved readng Wooden/Bill Walton stories.  Even if half of them are apocryphal, it still seems as though the Coach did have a certain ability to adapt the lesson to the pupil.  Perhaps he'd have adjusted to the twitter/kardashian/SportCenter/Sandy Hook world just fine.  I hope so.  And I would love to hear the thoughts of anyone who, say, played under Coach Wooden.  You know, if we had someone like that around here.  

Similarly, I'd enjoy hearing from anyone who uses the Pyramid or similar methods in coaching young people today.  Does it work?  Or  did the proliferation of Successories and the lampooning of Stuart Smalley ruin the well-whittled chestnut of wisdom for all who followed?

Just thoughts, from someone who would very much like to think that those thoughts are wrong.

[Rich Goodale]

Yo Gib

Bifurcate, Baby!

Harvey Penick (sic) couldn't carry even one fiber of Wooden's jock strap.  At the very least you owe your fans a ~1000 word rant as to why Harvey deserves to be even mentioned in the same thread as Wooden.  The soul of Lynn Shackelford (and all other players coahced by Wooden) must be shrieking the noo......

Your greatest fan who sees you going astray: baa, baa, baaaaaaaah....

Rich

[Tom_Doak]

I've got an autographed copy of the Pyramid on the wall right next to my desk here ... courtesy of a fellow member of Golf Club Atlas ... and it wasn't Lynn!

I also had Harvey Penick watching me hit balls one time when I was at Austin C.C., when I still worked for Mr. Dye.  That is the most nervous I've ever been hitting golf balls.

I don't think the comparison is so far-fetched.  Harvey didn't just teach Kite and Crenshaw; among his other best pupils were Betsy Rawls, Mickey Wright and Kathy Whitworth, who must be three of the top ten players in the history of the women's game.

[Don_Mahaffey]

Here's the thing:  I don't know how much if at all Coach Wooden's ways work well today. 
Kids are different now (the again, how many generations have said the exact same thing?). 
With their instant access to information, their immersion in an increasingly short-fused popular culture, and their far-too-early exposure to the worst the world has to offer, I just don't know that many would take to coaching-by-aphorism as well as prior generations did.

I don't know about this idea that Wooden's style wouldn't work today.
Certain qualities are timeless and I see young people craving the ethos that Wooden taught.
Having children involved in all sorts of organized youth activities, my take is children gravitate to honesty and consistency. My son plays for a college coach who was just elected to the College Golf Hall of Fame after coaching at the same school for almost 40 years. The kids tease him for his folksy manner, but they love him for his ridged and consistent approach. They never have to figure out where he is coming from because his message has never changed and he is always prepared. He never seems to make an attempt to connect to today's youth or act cool, he is comfortable with who he is and he is a consistent leader. He is also a good coach and his teams always get better as the season wears on. From my seat we need more coaches like my son's coach and Coach Wooden, and fewer who feel the need to adapt or fit into some perceived idea of what modern culture might be.
Lastly, I live in a small Texas town that is very diverse. Race, income, social status, we have it all. There are some kids here that one might say would be hard to reach with an old school approach. I see quite the opposite as these young people gravitate to adults who try and teach an ethos similar to Wooden's pyramid of success. I guess I'm old fashioned, but I find many kids actually embrace discipline and like to know where the boundaries are, and as long as those boundaries are enforced consistently and without prejudice, most will embrace the program.

[Scott Sander]

Don-

Thanks for the thoughtful reply to my comment.
I hope your take turns out to be more accurate than my own.  I have an 8 year old and a 3 year old, so I supposed I'll find out soon enough!

One thing I should have done in answering Gib's initial question was more clearly state that my concern with both Wooden and Penick's methods was less about the men and more about the way they conveyed the message; both trafficked in simple, well-crafted, single-thought statements that hammered home a point about the power of will, preparation, attitude, etc.  In that way, Penick's Little Red Book could have been a companion piece to the Pyramid.

My concern is more about the current fashion of lampoon first, look for value later. 
(There was a day when Notre Dame's (and Oklahoma's before it) "Play Like A Champion Today!" could rally any team.  I fear that ended abruptly a few weeks ago when some wit created the "Play Like Your Fake Girlfriend Died Today!" tee-shirt.  As soon as one makes a joke out of it, it's... a joke.)

But in terms of the 'coaching' part of coaching -the leader of men component-, the qualities you describe (consistency, strength of character, etc.) are certainly part of the lore of both men, and I would hope those things will never go out of fashion.

Maybe my worry would have been better explained if I'd said something like: The tenents of the Pyramid and the LRB are rock-solid, but the presentation of them in those forms may not carry the profundity they once did.  I treasured my first copy of the Pyramid (courtesy Bob Brower, 7th grade baseball) - but today's youngsters might just view it as something somebody mashed together after reading a quote-of-the-day calendar.

[Peter Pallotta]

Gib - my guess is that we probably err (or at least miss the main point) if we focus on their methods, philosophies and pyramid iof values. From what I can tell, far more important than what they said/taught is who they were. They were 'client centred', which means 'person centred' - which simply means they cared about people. They taught/served their students, and, most importantly, they genuinely wanted to serve. That's a trait rare enough that any two people who share it are bound to seem inseparable; and I believe that it's the one trait -- in teachers, healers, artists/writers, architects etc etc - that makes all the difference, and that produces so much of all that is good in the world.  

Peter

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