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hhuffines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #75 on: July 08, 2013, 06:40:48 PM »
Anyone been out on the course lately?  I can't seem to get down there to check out the new work... Hoping for an update.

I was interested to learn that Pinehurst #2 will be changing to Bermuda greens after the Open.  I'm guessing the USGA is good with that.

Thanks!

Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #76 on: July 08, 2013, 07:06:59 PM »
That is some amazing work. Mid Pines was always fun to play but in a quaint sort of way. These pictures make it look like a must play. Based on what I see it easily moves into my top 3 in Pinehurst - No. 2, Pine Needles, and Mid Pines.

Tom Fagerli

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #77 on: July 08, 2013, 08:52:56 PM »
Headed there Wednesday. Will update on what I see. Staying there so plenty of opportunity. Dormie on Thurs. Will report in. Had a lot of rain lately so I fear lack of ground game fun.

Tom Fagerli

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #78 on: July 14, 2013, 07:09:33 PM »
Spent four days at MP. This nonstop rain isn't doing them any favors. Greens looking great but fairways need sunshine and heat! Forecast this week is very positive. I don't think I am saying anything out of line to say that the weather has things a tad behind the hoped for schedule. Still looks so amazing out there. Can't wait to play it.
This weather hasn't helped Dormie either. Fast and firm it isn't and that is no one's fault. Few bad spots on the fairways but heat will help them too.
Pine Needles is in excellent condition.

hhuffines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #79 on: August 12, 2013, 02:22:22 PM »
 I stopped by Mid Pines last Tuesday to have a look and was surprised to learn the course had reopened...  Played 1-4 and really enjoyed the new greens.  I hope the fairways are responding to this week's heat and the crew is still working on cleaning up some of the hazards.   Can't wait to see it later this fall.    

hhuffines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #80 on: August 12, 2013, 02:25:10 PM »
Forgot to mention that midpinesrestoration.com has some good photos...

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #81 on: August 12, 2013, 04:28:32 PM »
As a Newbie to the area, which other courses should be played before or after the DC?  In what priority?     

Matthew Sander

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #82 on: August 12, 2013, 04:51:22 PM »
Lou,

Just returned from a trip to the area and our itinerary was based in large part on recommendations from earlier Pinehurst threads.

#2 was fantastic and even exceeded the lofty expectations that its reputation creates. It is often said that photos/TV do courses no justice, and Pinehurst #2 may be the worst represented course on film. The property is perfect for golf and I can't see how anyone could do any better with the site.

I also really enjoyed Mid Pines. We played one day after they re-opened to the public. Now, the fairways are brand new and still growing in, so there are some rough spots, no doubt, but it had little or no effect on my enjoyment of the course. I'm no agronomist, but I imagine after a year or so (maybe less?) of grow-in the fairways will be perfectly fine. There are some signs of recent construction and while the fairways were growing in I believe the crew only had limited access to the course, so I assume some clean up of the transition and waste areas will be taking place over the next few weeks/months. I took quite a few pictures and will post them soon, not so much as a photo tour (already been done and I can't hold a candle to Ran's talents), but just a look at how the course is shaping up.

Lastly, if you haven't already done so, check out Ran's reviews of Forest Creek North and South. We played the South and 9 holes of the North (front nine was closed for fairway aeration). They are beautiful courses with differing personalities. North is bigger and bolder with more visually intimidating hazards and greens. However, the South is very interesting, but often in more subtle ways.

My personal ranking (in terms of enjoyment - order I'd like to play again) of the courses we played would be like this:

1. Pinehurst #2
2. Mid Pines
3. Forest Creek North
4. Dormie Club
5. Tobacco Road
6. Forest Creek South
7. Pine Needles

I truly enjoyed all of the courses, and ranking Pine Needles 7th in this lineup should not be viewed as a slight in any way. In fact, I'd be thrilled to play Pine Needles every day. If conditioning is exceedingly important to you, Needles may have been in the best shape of all (with the possible exception of #2).
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 11:55:25 PM by Matthew Sander »

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #83 on: August 12, 2013, 05:44:37 PM »
Lou,

Just returned from a trip to the area and our itinerary was based in large part on recommendations from earlier Pinehurst threads.

#2 was fantastic and even exceeded the lofty expectations that its reputation creates. It is often said that photos/TV do courses no justice, and Pinehurst #2 may be the worst represented course on film. The property is perfect for golf and I can't see how anyone could do any better with the site.

I also really enjoyed Mid Pines. We played one day after they re-opened to the public. Now, the fairways are brand new and still growing in, so there are some rough spots, no doubt, but it had little or no effect on my enjoyment of the course. I'm no agronomist, but I imagine after a year or so (maybe less?) of grow-in the fairways will be perfectly fine. There are some signs of recent construction and while the fairways were growing in I believe the crew only had limited access to the course, so I assume some clean up of the transition and waste areas will be taking place over the next few weeks/months. I took quite a few pictures and will post them soon, not so much as a photo tour (already been done and I can't hold a candle to Ran's talents), but just a look at how the course is shaping up.

Lastly, if you haven't already done so, check out Ran's reviews of Forest Creek North and South. We played the South and 9 holes of the North (front nine was closed for fairway aeration). They are beautiful courses with differing personalities. North is bigger and bolder with more visibly intimidating hazards and greens. However, the South is very interesting, but often in more subtle ways.

My personal ranking (in terms of enjoyment - order I'd like to play again) of the courses we played would be like this:

1. Pinehurst #2
2. Mid Pines
3. Forest Creek North
4. Dormie Club
5. Tobacco Road
6. Forest Creek South
7. Pine Needles

I truly enjoyed all of the courses, and ranking Pine Needles 7th in this lineup should not be viewed as a slight in any way. In fact, I'd be thrilled to play Pine Needles every day. If conditioning is exceedingly important to you, Needles may have been in the best shape of all (with the possible exception of #2).

Matt,

It's too bad you missed the front nine on the North, I think it's the best nine on the FC property! Oh well, another reason to go back.

Sounds like you had an awesome trip. Did you go to the Track for breakfast?
H.P.S.

Matthew Sander

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines (new pics added from 8/8/13)
« Reply #84 on: August 13, 2013, 12:41:03 AM »
Here are a few photos, primarily of long views throughout the course. When I get a chance I'll post some more detailed pics with descriptions. These show some of the views that were opened up through some tree removal during the renovations. They should also help to illustrate the "social" nature of the design where several greens and tees are in very close proximity to one another.

Looking left of #1 fairway, you can catch a glimpse of hole 5 green (foreground) and hole 2 green (background)



Back towards #2 tee



Looking to the right of #6 fairway



The par 3 11th with the view opened up behind the green



A look at the outstanding par 4 12th while walking up the 11th...



...and another



From the green at the long par 3 13th you can see up the hill to the 14th and 15th holes



From the area near 16 green and 17 tee, you can see hole 7 (left), hole 6 (right), and hole 17 (middle)

« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 12:56:37 AM by Matthew Sander »

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #85 on: August 13, 2013, 09:04:09 PM »
Thanks Matthew.  Looks like one week should do it.

Tom Fagerli

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #86 on: August 14, 2013, 09:49:10 PM »
2:30 Fri and 9:20 Sat at MP and 8:15 Sun at PN. Tough few days but I will take one for the team!

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #87 on: August 14, 2013, 10:00:41 PM »
Looking forward to seeing the work in September.  I have a trip planned that basically mirrors the Dixie Cup with a few extras thrown in.

Matthew Sander

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #88 on: August 15, 2013, 11:10:27 PM »
Here are a few more recent pics from Mid Pines.

The short par 4 fourth hole was one of my two favorites on the course, along with the par 4 12th. In Ran's Mid Pines tour, He describes the hole as, "A must-see hole for golf architecture fans." I certainly agree as it is an ideal example of a straightforward looking hole that has so much strategic merit.

From the tee, challenging the bunker left, and the stand of pines will leave an ideal approach angle to most hole locations. Laying back does look inviting, but favoring the left side of the fairway is still suggested. Otherwise, the large pine short of the greenside bunker will play a significant role in the approach.



This photo is taken after a 3 wood tee shot up the left side. While the approach looks fairly simple, the green slopes away significantly where this hole is located. Playing directly at the hole brings the abrupt back-right falloff into play. The best way to get close is to play short and left of the hole and the slope from the left hand bunker will feed a ball to within a few feet.



Here is the back right portion of the green with the runoff area that must see a lot of action...



Here is a view of the beautiful downhill par 3 8th hole with some additional room behind thanks to some tree removal...



Some shots from the aforementioned 12th hole...

The hole starts with a very inviting tee shot that can give the player a false sense of security.



From the middle to right side of the fairway, you can see the problems posed on the approach. The tilt of this green is much more significant that it appears in this photo. From this side, you need to either hit a fade from a lie where the ball is a above your feet, or hit a soft shot at the extreme right edge of the green which brings the right bunker into play. If or when you find the bunker, your shot is to a narrow green that slopes abruptly away, so just keeping the bunker shot on the green is a challenge.



Taking on the bunkers and waste area left of the fairway leaves a much more open approach directly in line with the green's orientation.



We played with one of the Mid Pines/Pine Needles teaching professionals (small world - he happened to grow up in the house right behind us in our small southeastern Indiana town) and he was full of interesting insights and before/after stories. In the photos below, you'll see some greenside bunkering at the uphill/sidehill par 4 14th hole. Apparently that back left bunker used to be a wall of azaleas. Kyle Franz was successful in creating a scraggly looking bunker that still incorporates some of the pre-existing vegetation.



A little closer look...

« Last Edit: August 16, 2013, 12:15:31 AM by Matthew Sander »

Andy Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #89 on: August 16, 2013, 11:25:47 AM »
Mathew,

Thanks for the terrific pictures!

8 looks fantastic. I was very curious about it and not much had been done there when I was last out. Are the kick plates on the back of the bunkers short left and right as steep as they used to be? The tree clearing there looks so good.

As for 12, are there now two bunkers that jut into the fairway on the left? Which one is new? Is it the one closest to the green? Which would be a nice hazard for the long hitter.

Matthew Sander

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #90 on: August 16, 2013, 12:47:37 PM »
Mathew,

Thanks for the terrific pictures!

8 looks fantastic. I was very curious about it and not much had been done there when I was last out. Are the kick plates on the back of the bunkers short left and right as steep as they used to be? The tree clearing there looks so good.

As for 12, are there now two bunkers that jut into the fairway on the left? Which one is new? Is it the one closest to the green? Which would be a nice hazard for the long hitter.

Andy

You'll have to pardon my lack of knowledge regarding before/after comparisons as this was my first visit to Mid Pines.

Regarding #8, without seeing the course previously, I can't comment on whether or not the kick plates have retained their shape, I do believe they are still there though. Todd, the pro we were with, did mention that Kyle did some work on the back left of the green for new hole location(s). With the severe fall-off in the back of the green, the new hole location should be interesting.

I'm fairly certain that the second bunker on the 12th is newly added. The first bunker really isn't a concern for medium to long hitters. The second bunker though should be considered, whether they try to place a shot between the two, or just skirt the edge of the second. I think it would be an awfully long carry to fly the second bunker. Also, the picture I took is actually from right of the teeing grounds. From the tee I don't think that second bunker can be reached with a straight ball, it would take a draw to get there. At least, that is how I'm remembering its placement right now. I could certainly be wrong...

Andy Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #91 on: August 16, 2013, 02:06:57 PM »
Great info Matt.

8 green is great, but with any speed the back half was unpinnable, so I'm not surprised that it'd be flattened a bit. That will be a fun pin though!

The second bunker on 12 is a great idea. Hopefully it play fast and as long and left as possible is the only way to attack that green, so you'd be trying to play toward that very spot and the land should feed into it.

Again, thanks for the pics!

Tom Fagerli

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #92 on: August 19, 2013, 08:38:38 AM »
Just some brief notes after chopping it around Mid Pines Saturday- first, it hasn't gotten any easier! Second, the front right pin on 7 is tremendous. 8 green appears much larger (7 too). 9 is an even better hole now. The right fairway pit looks ominous- so much so I refused to go look at it up close! 12 is even better with the new left fairway bunker. When this confounded rain stops and it dries out the course is going to really be a showpiece.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #93 on: August 20, 2013, 04:44:57 PM »
Any thoughts on the CCofNC?

Tom Fagerli

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #94 on: September 06, 2013, 09:11:44 PM »
I am happy to report that MP is really getting into good shape. The. Fairways have improved dramatically in the last cople of weeks, as have the greens. It just gets better and better.

hhuffines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #95 on: September 06, 2013, 09:20:10 PM »
Lou,

As a good player you might enjoy CCNC but I think there are better options now.  It's got houses all around both courses and its kind of dated there.  I don't mean this as slam but others have caught up and surpassed it as a golf experience and I was a member there for quite a few years.

Hart

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #96 on: September 07, 2013, 05:45:54 PM »
You flatter me, Hart.  ;)  Thanks for the info.  I'll be putting my itinerary together next week with #2 being the top priority.  It is my first time to Pinehurst, and in case I can't make it back, I am going to try to play as many of the best I can get on my schedule (around the DC venues).  I would be interested in your top 10 in the area if you want to take a stab at it.

hhuffines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #97 on: September 07, 2013, 09:42:33 PM »
Lou, Pinehurst to me is all about Donald Ross.  #2 is obvious and should be in prime shape with our weather starting to cool.  Mid Pines, Pine Needles, and Southern Pines would be must plays.  Both courses at Forest Creek are top notch and are usually in fine condition.  There's a lot to like at Dormie Club too and others would probably mention Tobacco Road.  I have heard Tobacco Road's greens are in poor condition so I would double check before playing there.  CCNC Dogwood is probably slightly bettern than CCNC Cardinal.  Both have interesting holes and lots of water.  The Cardinal has new bermuda greens and may be more fun to play.  I'm not a big fan of Pinehurst #4 or #8.  I haven't been to the Mid South Club in a long time, but it was a nice place to play.

That's more than you wanted but at least there's a lot to choose from... Hope you have a great time!

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #98 on: September 07, 2013, 09:46:39 PM »
I played Pine Needles in the late fall last year and they had overseeded the course and it was soaking wet so I would check that first.

Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #99 on: September 08, 2013, 07:20:59 AM »
Lou - I've been going to Pinehurst for about 25 years and my parents were members for most of that time. I would say Hart pretty much nails it on the courses. Although Mid-South is just okay to me. Pine Needles i my favortie after #2. I eagerly looking forward to the restored Mid Pines prior to the Dixie Cup this fall. That looks like it could move into thrird position for me in Pinehurst. I have not played either of the Forrest Creek courses but I've heard great things.

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